That's not the context. His comment was in response to Anywife's post Friday where she talked about his "martyr-man attitude." To that, he asked how my/the forum's DEMAND that he give up his family was different than if he demanded sex from me. He's not enthusiastic, he's capitulating.


I don't see anything in him that you just mentioned. I see him changing the manner in which he interacts with the forum, but nothing in the manner in which he interacts with me. I don't see him changing habits, and I don't see a "giver." I'm curious what you're referring to.


You told him to ask me. I suspect if he had been able to adequately answer you, you wouldn't have asked him to ask me. This is my answer, I'm not sure what you were looking for from me.


I appreciate your perspective, but we're just going to have to disagree on this point.

Agreed, the details I listed were in the past. However, the behavior is still very much in the present. It's hard for me to care if I'm love-busting him when I just want out, while he's still love-busting me everyday amidst his claims of being all-in.

Admittedly, I have many triggers with his current behavior. I wouldn't know how to segregate the current behavior from the past so that the current (repeat) offense isn't compounded (re: boy who cried wolf.)

Thanks Day. Thoughtful responses.

With the little time I have right now, I will start with this:


I did ask him to VERIFY that he understood your perspective correctly before stating it to us.

More than once he has not had a clear understanding of YOUR perpective. That is part of why I have asked him to discuss in written form instead of verbal.


Why have him Reverify?

1. It helps him get into the habit of listening to you instead of assuming.

2. It gets him in the habit of repeating your perspective back to summarize and make sure that he has it right.

3. I don't want to give advice based on "she said" that has been misinterpreted by him.

Thanks for being willing to ask.

I completely get the written vs. verbal and the value it should have. Except I haven't found that to be the case with us/him. The email conversation we had a week or so ago about why his family was uncomfortable was far from productive and still riddled with LBs. And even things that he reads on the forum are twisted in his mind. In the discussion we had about Anywife's post, he indicated that he thought she was supportive of his approach, that she had a positive reaction to his post. I had him find her post and read it again to tell me what he found to be supportive. He acknowledged upon reading it again that it obviously wasn't but that he recalled it being much more encouraging. This was two days after he read it.

I'm seeing a new pattern in his responses to the forum. It's very much a "yes-man" approach. He agrees with everything and promises to do anything that anyone asks, so then he isn't accused of being argumentative or defensive or disdainful. But I really don't think he's getting it, because he's still doing all that with me. Listing the boat last week is a perfect example. I've asked him why he doesn't ask the forum before he does these things, if his excuse is that I'm unapproachable. He says he knows the forum would have told him not to, but he doesn't even think to ask them. I relate it to the Telecommunication course I just completed. I got an 'A' in the class, but I couldn't begin to answer one question about what I learned now, only two weeks later. I simply did what I needed to do to get through the class but retained nothing for day-to-day life.

I like your approach of pointing out that there's more to a post but asking him to tell you what that is rather than giving him the answer. I'd be curious to see if he could connect the dots for you between a current post and a similar discussion earlier in the thread (without pointing him directly to it.) I've had zero success with that. Unless I spell it out to him, for example, there is no similarity in his mind to the toilet incident in December and the listing of the boat last week, which are both a very obvious breach of the POJA.

Sometimes it is easy to understand why people are in withdrawal. That is because the withdrawal is a logical response to what they have been through. Such is the case here. While we want to encourage you to give it your best effort, it is not hard to appreciate your position. You are actually a very good spouse who has long lived in an untenable situation. I think that MB can turn this around with the full participation of both of you, but I can certainly understand your reluctance. I wish the best for you whatever you choose to do.

Awesome questions Day. Very true!

Need to get some people out the door and then I will respond to that.

ITA!!!

((((JustDaytoDay)))


Thank you, JD2D.


I have a lot of hope for you two after he separates.

When separated, I think he will have more of a dating/pursuing mindset and will be able to win you back.

I think that when he is back to the state of being hungry for your participation in his time, he will understand better how that contrasts to the state your marriage had devolved, and will protect that condition ferociously with all of his new techniques and MB understanding.

I pray that the two of you can co-reside without further conflicts damaging your relationship until he is able to move out.

I was in your shoes for 25 years, and I see so much of my xH in Remark sometimes. The ONLY way we could have fixed our relationship was with some distance of time and him pursuing me again. He chose to make that impossible and it ended in D.

In your case, your H is willing to do that. I think you offer Remark an understanding and compassionate personality, and give him a lot to work with in return for his efforts. I think your relationship may very well survive the turning point and then thrive again.

You probably have experienced how if the LBs stop for a bit, you realize that you could continue on and make this work. We need for Remark to stop them and never pick them back up again so not only do you come to the point where you consider whether it could work but you then fall back in love with him again.

I am rooting for you, and for your marriage, JD2D.

I am not surprised at Remark�s written language is still riddled with LB. He doesn�t recognize his LB or he wouldn�t put them in writing at this point, would he?
The good thing about email is that you can print it, highlight the LBs, and pass it on to him. NO EXPLAINING. Then he can study his LBs. If he can�t figure them out, then he could either post to the forum or ask �why� it was a lovebuster.

Yes, this will happen for a while. In reference to Anywife�s post, you did a good job of thoughtfully requesting that he share with you what it was that gave him that impression.

If he is trying to educate you with Anywife�s post, then tell him that the conversation is getting unpleasant and offer something else that�s pleasant.

In kind,if you see him come away from the forum confused, (which is likely, considering all of the posters on his thread), then just ask how he would feel about recapping to double checking with that poster to make sure that he understood her words the way she meant them. If he won�t, Say that you had a different picture and drop it. Don�t educate him. Think big picture.

Another option would have been to let it go. He doesn�t want to feel stupid. It's a LB to correct our spouse. Turn it into a thoughtful request instead?

We like to solve things directly. Isn�t it annoying that it takes a village to get the point to him? That would be eliminated if he would just restate back to you what he hears from you until he gets a correct reflection. So the goal is for Remark to practice listening and understanding perspective from the source. That is a precursor to the first step of POJA, defining the problem. If he can learn to do that without LBs, so much will change for you.

So, once again, that is why I feel that he should share with you by text or email, his recap of what you have said on any subject. Then, you can agree or fill in the blanks. Once he does a good job, thank him for showing care by listening with exactness. I think it's a good idea to focus on the basics that some people take for granted. We posters can validate you all day long. But it is REMARK whose validation and listening you need.

(I will respond to your next point in a separate post.)

Yes. And in my opinion, his �yes man� approach is a great start. Now you might think that his goal by being a �yes man� is to protect his image. That may be true, but it would be disrespectful for you to say it to him. (I�m sure you won�t.) I happen to think that it is more of a first step in a positive direction and much different from when he was on the radio show or even when he started his thread.
Just because he is at step 1 does not mean that he won�t ever climb the stairs. Without a doubt, He needs to translate that courtesy to you, immediately. And yes, it will feel fake and awkward at first to BOTH of you. That is Okay! Try to have goodwill and be kind toward each other as you try new things. You have to start somewhere.



That IS an excuse.
But if you look for the truth in what he is saying, you will grow more than you ever wanted to. Lol.
I know that it doesn�t seem fair that he should �taunt and bully you, then get upset when you cry.� Dr. Harley helped me to see that I could control how I reacted, even when my husband was outright mean. He had an experience where he testified in congress, and his opposition actually spit on him! He had developed the ability to calm himself, even under those conditions. I tried to remember that story when I felt so frustrated and angry. Because even though it wasn�t okay for my husband to make excuses, I sure didn�t want to give him any.

This may be true. My husband used to say things like this all of the time. I seriously couldn�t figure out why he would say something so embarrassing and silly, and actually think that I would consider it an excuse? It would infuriate me. What was I supposed to do with that response? Duh, If you see the problem, then fix it! Right?

After talking with Dr. Harley about these types of responses from my husband, Dr. Harley, he helped me realize that I had been expecting my husband to be just like me. Well, he isn�t. And he really CAN�T stop himself sometimes because his brain was genetically formed that way.

Now, over time, and with the practice of checking in habitually, his brain has added the step of checking first, into its process. At this point, he breaches in POJA about once or twice a week. And when I say breaches, I�m talking about forgetting to check in about very small things. But blatant disregard does not really happen. If I am honest, I hold him to a much higher standard on this than he holds me. more than that, because he doesn�t NEED me to check in. He has a frame of reference for all of this now, in that he recognizes, I can complain, and he usually responds very well.
So, Day, hopefully my sharing will help you in some way accept that Remark may actually be putting more effort into this process than you realize. He is just dealing with different circumstances than you, and he has always made excuses for it. Over time, he really can develop the skill.



Perfect example! So there are two thoughts that I have about that. First- If you were to spend the rest of your life learning about Telecommunications by listening to a radio show about Telecommunications, and if you posted to a forum about Telecommunications, and maybe even took a private course about Telecommunications where your own personal coach was provided, do you think that any of what you learned would make its way into long term memory?
I would guess that it would. How LONG that would take, might be determined by how instinctive the subject was for you, right? Now if the information is incorrect, it won�t do us any good, will it? That is why MB is so cool. The rules work for any couple who learns to apply them. But few people are willing to subject themselves to such rules. That is why there are so few long term happy marriages.

Second thought is: Remark may need to have his meds changed to improve his memory. I know that we discussed this earlier in his thread and hopefully it is a work in progress. Testosterone has improved my husband�s memory and mood significantly, among other things just like estrogen helps women. It was a fight to get it, but it was worth it.

Right. Remark needs the established habit of checking ALWAYS to override the impulse to follow his �great idea, or his own own best logic of the moment.

I know how tedious it can be to spell things out and not have them be understood. However, we can�t expect our spouses to mind read or fill in the blanks. There�s a sense in which, that is setting them up to make assumptions and disrespectful judgments. Can you see how that might be true?

As an example, I look at how Dr. Harley teaches us. He doesn�t make us guess at it. He has written his books in a way that �spoon feeds�. The goal is to make it simple and clear. Yes, the application can still be tricky for all of us.

Dr. Harley teaches us that the point of building habits is to repeat a behavior the same way, over and over again until it becomes a natural instinct to us. Then the dots can be connected, once we are used to behaving how we should.

I would like to see Remark focus on building the HABITS of getting enthusiastic agreement consistently, defining a problem, and practicing a pleasant demeanor with you. But we do need your help with the first one especially. My concern with sending him to the forum to decide whether or not to do something, is that he then learns to consider the forum as his litmus test, instead of the thumbs up or down from you. It is YOUR feelings that he needs to adjust to, not ours. It is very important for him to respect your FEELINGS, even if he doesn�t understand the WHY behind them and how they connect with everything else. It will be important that you state clearly that you are either Enthusiastic, Not Enthusiastic, or Undecided, please table for later. He should DO NOTHING until and unless and until you are ENTHUSIASTIC. THAT is the litmus test for safety in your relationship, along with eliminating his lovebusters.

Now I�ll be honest. I never thought that my husband would connect the dots either. But it has happened. At this point, he is seeing the concept of �throwing me under the bus�, which is something I would complain about and get berated for �coming up with crazy ideas.� Yesterday, in an appointment, he threw me under the bus twice, and it really upset me. But guess what? Not too much. Because I was able to tell him, he listened, AND once I started telling him, he was able to see it easily plus he apologized appropriately. For me, that is awesome progress and a reasonable standard since we all make mistakes.

So back to your concern about spelling things out. Even though you might need to do that on occasion, as long as you tell him respectfully, without judging his lack of natural instinct, you will be fine. Accept that his brain is wired differently than yours, and that his willingness is the key part. Try not to compare him to others. You don�t like it when he does that. My advice to you is based upon what I have learned, but not what I was perfect in doing.


Just a reminder- Learn to WALK AWAY when he�s not being open, when it�s not clicking, or when he says something oppositional. You don�t have to explain. Resist the urge. Just say that you would like to visit the subject some other time, when you feel better about it, and leave the room. That will prompt him to think of his most recent statement. Keep submitting a list of his lovebusters to him at the end of the week. Great job on that!

Let me know if you want me to post to you about the family situation. What I can say, is that I understand where you are coming from, and I was not enthusiastic with my husband breaking ties with his family for all of the same reasons that you are not. If you want me to post more about that to you sometime, I can. But there�s a lot to think about here, and I�m not even sure that what I am saying is what you need.

So�
I know that I have posted lots and maybe too much for you to digest at this point. But hello, I�m not sure when we will see you again.

I feel for you and hope that some of this information can be helpful for you. I would also recommend that at some point, you reread your own thread for new insight. Lots of vets whom I respect, have posted good suggestions to you, but maybe you weren�t in a place to receive their help at the time. . When I came here, I had many of your same questions. I spent 24-7 reading every thread I could, and I read SAA, LB, HWSW, and listened to every radio show in the archive at the time. Even if my marriage had failed, (and will, unless we continue to follow these MB principles), I would not have regretted the time I have spent learning this program, doing the online program, and being among awesome, super smart people who give of their time and knowledge daily. But so far so good. I told my husband today, "Thank you for being a good husband to me. I never thought that you could be this way." and he said, "I never knew what this way was."


P.S.- So, just in case - I want to leave you with this to hold you over until your husband learns the way that you need to hear it...

Your husband married you for a reason. And it wasn�t just because he needed a nanny or a maid. He truly enjoyed spending time with you, he felt good being with you. He says that you are pretty and talented. You were the float to his boat or he wouldn�t have tied the knot. You are smart and caring and thoughtful and a great gardener. I hope that he can learn how to make you feel like a treasure, EVERY SINGLE DAY for the rest of your life. He just can�t imagine the future without you. Literally.

Sorry about the threadjack but I wanted to say that DidntQuit is totally amazing. I hope some of her posts to you make it to a sticky. You are getting fantastic support.

Thanks to everyone, again, for all your time and efforts. DQ, I've read your posts and really appreciate the insight. I'm not sure how applicable it is in our situation. It just seems like there's a bigger issue with us. At minimum, I think the issues are too big for me. I give you credit, I don't think I can do what you've done, at least not anymore. I'm just tired. Perhaps if we had come here earlier....

I'm putting some thoughts down just to give an update. Not sure what it will serve or how useful it can be, but here goes.

First, I've opted out of giving Remark a weekly LB list. I let him know when he does them at the time. If he wants to keep track of them, he can, but I'm not doing it for him anymore. Beyond that, everything is still pretty much the same, or worse. The condo is purchased and Remark is painting, re-carpeting, etc. Thankfully, our son is taking it all very well, even helping Remark with the prep, talking about how to make a man-cave, etc. He was my only reason for putting this off this long, ironically. Maybe I could have done it sooner...

More next....

The Sunday before last, Remark and I together compiled a brief email to his brother and sister asking for a better explanation of their claim of "discomfort." Remark received responses from both in fairly short order and forwarded them to me. We had only a brief discussion about his brother's response, in which I stated that I thought his description of me seemed rather "sterile," especially compared to Remark's description of his SIL, which included, "She's darn near perfect!" and other glowing compliments. No discussion at all was had regarding his sister's response. Thursday evening, I asked Remark if he had ever responded to his brother and sister regarding the emails we received from them. I wanted to know because he typically has contacted them without discussing it with me first, and I didn't want to get blindsided by something else. He responded that he had not and the conversation ended.

The next morning, on Friday, I had this email exchange with Remark, initiated by him:
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(Remark) As I fell asleep last night, I thought about the conversation we had re: responding to Q and C.

We sent that e-mail telling them we were going to be sharing it with the forum. We haven�t done that yet.

And, I haven�t responded to them because I�m wanting to build a protective bubble around you with regard to them. So, I haven�t communicated with them or Dad & Mom. I feel badly that when we�re together, you are uncomfortable C was uncomfortable; I feel terribly selfish as I was the only one comfortable and I put you through all that travel time, to boot. So, that�s why I haven�t communicated with them except to respond to an e-mail from H. Q had surgery on Wednesday and H informed everyone that it went well.

I haven�t talked to Dad and Mom either.

I think I should consolidate Q and C�s responses into one and explain that I�m going to focusing on you and our marriage for the indefinitely future until such time that you feel comfortable with them. I�ll mention, like I did above, how selfish I feel having been the only one truly comfortable with all of us in the same room. And, I feel I should send this as an e-mail or letter to Q, C, Dad and Mom, and the forum.

What do you think of that idea?
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(JustDaytoDay) Do you have any other thoughts on what they said in their emails?
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(Remark) I�d still like to know what they are comfortable in the same room up there, but not down here. And, why it was so hard to get them to come down here, if there is a different answer than the answer to the first part of this question ( comfortable ).

I�d like to know exactly what the palpable tension, (or whatever C�s term was) was/is. I certainly didn�t sense it.

I�d like to know if/how I�m goofy that I like to call them, but they don�t call me as much.

I�d like to know what they would do if they weren�t embraced by their spouses� family for whatever reason and how�d they, as a couple, would handle it. We know J�s sister and brother-in-law had some sort of issue with Q and J and Q didn�t associate much with them for several years.
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(JustDaytoDay) I don't have these answers for you. Are you wanting to ask them or you'd just like to know somehow otherwise?
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(Remark) I�d like to know.

I�d like to know how you might feel comfortable with them and they with you, but that is selfish on my part. I like to think you and they are concerned about that as well, for starters. Otherwise, screw it, if I�m the only one losing sleep over this.
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(JustDaytoDay) I repeat, are you wanting to ask them or you'd just like to know somehow otherwise?
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(JustDaytoDay) Oops, sorry, I missed your answer that you'd like to know, vs. asking them.

I don't believe I can help you with this in any way. I can't answer for them and I don't have the power to solve it for everyone.
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(Remark) Would I be violating my �radio silence� , from your perspective, or the forum�s perspective, if I were to have another or few conversations with them on this topic?
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(JustDaytoDay) You're not violating anything from my perspective because I don't have a 'radio silence' position. I suspect the forum would defer you to me, but you can always ask *them* directly rather than ask * me* what * they* would do.
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(Remark) OK, thanks. I�ll do then as I suggested, consolidating their positions and sending to them, with a few more questions and explanations from our end.
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(JustDaytoDay) Please do not explain anything from "my" end. Your response to them should consist of all "I" statements, expressing your (and possibly the forum's) position. I would like to see it before you send it.
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(Remark) Sure thing. Fighting a fire though now. And, I have to leave at 3:30. I�ll work on tonight.
--------------------------------------------------

At 9:30 Friday evening, Remark had not yet started on the response, opting instead to spend the evening shopping online for furnishings for his condo . I told him that I was disappointed that once again he wasn't doing what he said he would do ("work on tonight"), and said that I would appreciate if he would not involve me in these stressful engagements in the first place until he's more invested in it. My personality is such that I'll ruminate on it until it's put to bed, and the ongoing stress and apprehension weighs too heavily on me.

This made him angry and he sat down with his laptop and started pounding out an email. I reiterated that I wasn't asking him to do it then, but to be sensitive in the future to not involving me in an issue until he was truly ready to address it. He continued to pound away on his keyboard. He finished about an hour later, forwarded me a copy and went to bed.

The rest of our conversation the next morning was done verbally, so I don't have a record of how it transpired, unfortunately, but somehow along the way, the email to his siblings became "my" request, somehow solicited when I had asked him if he had responded to them. He could have asked me immediately Thursday night or even Friday morning if that's what I wanted, rather than assuming, but he didn't. There was no discussion about what *I* wanted for him to be able to begin formulating a response "for me." Even the one request I made that I not be referenced was seemingly ignored as Remark still referenced me in his email 27 times, even though none of the questions he told me he wanted to ask, did. The entire second step of the POJA ("Identify the problem from the perspectives of both you and your spouse") was completely skipped, step 3 (Brainstorm solutions with abandon) consisted of Remark itemizing what he wanted to do and how, and step 4 (Choose the solution that is appealing to both of you) was Remark asking for my permission to break radio silence, while my complete lack of enthusiasm was irrelevant. Very disappointing for me, especially since I know the forum has put significant effort into instructing him on this.

This is another example of how I'm being held responsible for every unpleasantness in his life, even being charged with a request that I never made, and being held responsible for another conflict that could have easily been avoided if he had simply applied the POJA and asked me what *I* wanted instead of making wild assumptions and spending his time and energy focusing on what *he* wanted then claiming he was doing it for *me*.

At this point, I *believe* the email has gone unsent. I've let the topic drop and will make no further inquiries for fear it will be misconstrued again.

Remark and I had a brief discussion Saturday morning, which I would describe as "positive" at least in regards to form and attitude, if not function. In short, Remark acknowledged that I did a lot of changing (cooperative adjusting) when we were first married, while he never really changed much of anything (actual behavior vs. marketing.) I referenced the saying that "men marry women hoping they'll never change, while women marry men hoping they will," pointing out the irony that our situation is gender-opposite.

He reflected on this and wanted to come up with ways that I've tried to change him, and said to me, "You're trying to change me to make it so I don't enjoy going to church anymore."

This comment was made in regards to Remark's crusade to define and eliminate his IBs, which started in October when he announced that he had given up softball, church, and bible study. Softball I understood because I had clearly expressed my disapproval of it previously. But there was never any conflict/discussion about church or bible study except that he didn't like that I quit attending with him, so I was quite surprised by his conclusion. I expressed my surprise and questioned his decision. Since then, he has waffled back and forth on his position, discussing it on the forum, attending sometimes and not others, remaining undecided. I've refused to get sucked into this debate with him as I immediately recognized it as a perfect storm, one that would ultimately leave me bloodied and bruised. I told him in no uncertain terms several times that I would never offer any further input on the topic and he would need to take ownership of the decision himself.

Apparently, even that degree of explicit non-participation doesn't exempt me from being blamed. Of course, the request for backup for the accusation yielded nothing, seemingly not even remorse for the condemnation.

He did something similar on Monday when he claimed that he had to deal with my b--ching about his golf for 20 years. When I asked for examples of the conflict we've had over his golf, the only occasion he listed was a discussion we had 20 years ago when we were doing a group book study on the HNHN/Love Busters series, when in the discussion I interpreted that, according to Dr. Harley's definition, his golf was IB. Yet he could come up with numerous examples where I have been supportive over the years, even encouraging, siting several examples where I machine-embroidered some memorabilia golf towels for him and the other players. Still, I'm accused of b--ching about it for 20 years.

While I appreciate the effort made on the forum regarding asking Remark why he fell in love with me, the daily message I get from him is that I am the bane of his existence. If he doesn't have something legitimate to rebuke me about, he'll make something up. Words about my artistic abilities or love of animals is valueless to me, especially when it's not even something he engages in with me. Sure, he "loves" that about me, as long as I keep it "over there," out of his life. Ironically, while he relates my artistic abilities to his mother's, after 21 years together, I have no idea what artistic endeavors she engaged in, whether painting, pottery, illustration, etc., because Remark never talked about it (she passed before we met.) Yet I have heard countless times in detail how she used to pack up and travel all around following behind him and his brother and father while they played softball tournaments, which of course I'm not willing to do and therefore continue to be the bane of his existence and "why can't I just be a good little wifey like his mother was?"

On Remark's thread, Anywife posted this:
I agree wholeheartedly and would describe every interaction we have as that. Ironically, I have used those exact words, that I feel like he's being deliberately obtuse. (I'm telling you, either I'm so vanilla that an idiot could speak for me, or you people on the forum are so good it's scary.)

So then here's the problem. Remark has done a bunch of testing. The testing showed that he is intelligent, and in some areas above average. He showed no weak areas, no signs of any disability, no personality disorders. He has tried various ADHD meds with no effect. So there is no clinical explanation.

At the same time, while he immediately attributed many of his problems in life to being a non-linear thinker, Remark has not even bothered to look up what that is. I asked him and he has no idea what it means or how it translates to day-to-day life, what problems it causes, what can be done to reduce the problems, etc. It has become his current "crutch" to explain away all problems and make them beyond his control and not his fault.

There is nothing in my mind or tangible that explains his complete lack of application of the Harley principles or the instructions from the people on the forum besides lack of effort (aka laziness.) For example, the POJA has 4 steps. The forum has instructed him to print them out and go through each step and write it out. That's about as simple as it gets yet he hasn't done that once. I think if you inventoried the things you've suggested to him (get a notebook, track POJA, track LBs, etc.) and compared it against the things he's actually doing, it might give you a more accurate measurement of his effort.

I have to say, I don't see the point at this time of continuing back and forth around his family's attitude. If his brother responded with a "sterile" email, that should be taken on its own terms, and not become the basis for endless discussions between the two of you.

He may not have ADHD, but he has extreme difficulty (or is extremely reluctant) to write things clearly. So I don't know why you would even want to engage in what are clearly unpleasant topics of conversation in written form.

You are wasting tremendous amounts of time and energy on his siblings. Period.

Here's the simple answer; if they ain't "comfortable" around you, too damn bad. They don't need to be around. HE needs to accept THAT. YOU need to quit trying to hold him responsible for THEIR attitudes.

If they want to be around, THEY need to suck it up, THEY need to apologize to YOU.

Your HUSBAND needs to suck it up and accept the fact that if his siblings aren't pleasant and respectful to his WIFE, then THEY ARE GONE.


Also, entirely too much time is spent on;

The past.

"Problems."

1) Nothing past can be resolved in the present. If Remark attempts to bring up some historical problem, tell him "This conversation is neither safe, nor pleasant" and change the subject. Constantly rehashing old hurts only keeps them in the present and is ONLY destructing. It serves no constructive purpose what so ever.

2) Cut the "problems" discussion down to once weekly. Set the day each week... Saturday, Sunday, Wednesday... whatever. If there are any e-mails or attempted conversations about marital problems any other day of the week... "Can we talk about this on XXXday? It is not pleasant conversation."

If in either of those situations, your husband fails to cease at your request, or fails to provide you with pleasant conversation or activity, walk away.

Draw a line in the sand; you will have a pleasant companion, or no companion.

THIS will simply never happen. Why do you think the discussion is still being had? He was told this on the forum back in November. The unconditional love he has for his siblings is like nothing I've ever witnessed. He will never be enthusiastic, only capitulate, and the resentment will grow to something unbearable for both of us.

The current problems are just repeats or continuations of past problems (his disdain for me, siblings/family, violating POJA, IB, etc.) The "pleasant companion or no companion" suggestion is already being addressed by his moving out. Do you think that our conversation is the only thing that makes his company unpleasant?