Yes, Markos, I recognized it was a repeat and listened to it again. I don't believe I've missed a show for probably six months.

And, I'm not sure where in the bible it says to 'mine her heart', and I just went looking for it. But when the pastor/counselor gave me that instruction years ago, I took it to mean I was called to study her, know her, ask her questions to know her deeply, intimately, like no other person on earth. That's what I took "mine her heart" to mean, and I thought he was quoting it from the bible some where. I just searched and I couldn't find it, though.

Thanks,
Remark

Remark-

My husband totally agrees with Marcos that MBR will be so helpful. If you are already listening every day, but you aren't able to see your own lovebusters, then you need to step it up somehow.

One thing that I found helpful was to subscribe to the radio archive. Did you know that you can search by specific lovebuster topics and listen that way? When you download from the archives, there are no breaks and you can pause, repeat and take notes. If you listen to 4 segments about your worst lovebusters, you might just get it. Maybe after your wife sees that you're serious, she can listen with you and signal when Joyce & Bill touch on her specific complaints.

When we first started MB, we could hardly have a conversation without negativity erupting. So what we ended up doing was to take long walks while listening to MBR episodes using headphones and a splitter. Eventually we were able to talk about what we were hearing. But sometimes we had to stop talking and just keep walking to keep things pleasant. It worked really well.

Do you have a subscription to the MBR archive?

I agree that you do not have to ask, just quietly join the walk. Or walk the dog for her if you get home first but leave her a note if you do that.

And make her laugh, we women cannot resist a man that makes us laugh.

DQ,

Yes, at least I had a subscription. It seems to have expired based on my effort to log in minutes ago. I'll have to renew.

I'll bet though, that I haven't missed three show sin the past year listening daily.

Feedback on paraphrasing?

Thx,
Remark

OK,
Thanks, LivingWell

Thanks for asking for feedback. You did a good job on the other rewrites, too.

Feedback: When I read your response, I notice that you didn't address a significant point I made. If I were your wife, and this were habitual, I might even wonder if you "ignored" or "avoided" the point.

So I asked this a while back, but never got a response.

What kinds of things did your wife like when you were dating? What did you do to show affection? How did you treat her? What did you do together?

DQ,

I don't intentionally avoid a question. Often, I even think I do/did answer the question. In your case, I simply thought it was thought-provoking, but I didn't realize I should answer it.

At home, I do the same, often thinking I've answered her question, but she's not satisfied with it.

Thanks,
Remark

Remark - You still did not answer the question...

DQ,

We went to movies and ate out on date nights when we didn't have my kids, priding ourselves on how cheap we could accomplish. Yes, conversation was important to both of us. Talking didn't seem a problem, I thought. We talked about pleasant things, sometimes over the phone until the wee hours.

It's like Dr Harley says about affairs. In affairs, EN's are getting met and problems are NOT in the mix. Understand, ours was not an affair, but problems hadn't ensued. I hadn't done a ton of stupid things. The ex and kids hadn't complicated our lives at that point. My stupidity and their conflicts came soon enough after our marriage.

Being conflict averse, the conversation got tough for me after we got married when I did something that offended her, or there were conflicts over major purchases, or we had parenting issues, for example.

We are simple people who enjoy a bargain at a garage sale, or the Goodwill Store. We've always done that.

When first married, she was really into gardening. Me not so much. Me and my kids all did sports, went camping and boating. My major mistake was not investing in her gardening like she did my kids, camping and boating, and watching sports with me and the kids. My lack of investment in gardening caused major withdrawals, I'm smart enough to realize now, such that it ended up becoming IB on my part to play softball, and/or her to garden without me while I did something else. Again, I realize the futility and stupidity of that now.

I don't feel I treat her much differently now. The conflicts, IB, and my wanting to do X over her Y have caused many withdrawals, instead of deposits over the years.

I've always liked to show and give her affection, giving her hugs, whatever. When first married, I'd get home, come up behind her and hug her saying something like "Hello June, how was your day?" and she'd call me "Ward" as in, Ward and June Cleaver. WOW!, fond memories for me.

That should cover most of those Q's, I think.

Thanks,
Remark

Exactly. You now acknowledged, and you made sure to "explain" again to defend yourself, but did you really think about my suggestion? How am I supposed to know that?

OUCH! The problem is not her lack of satisfaction. The problem is that you have not adjusted to her need for you to give actual thought to what she says, and respond in a way that demonstrates to her that you actually DID consider what she says.

Then, I'm missing the question. What is the Q?

Sorry,
Remark

Okay. Just to simplify:

It felt like some of the main points of my post were skipped over.

The part in blue, suggested a way of listening that is very different from what you are doing. Any acknowledgement or thoughts about that suggestion? What I heard instead, is about how your are already listening to MBR and you haven't missed any episodes. It doesn't help for you to comment about what you are already doing. That comes off as defensive. It helps for you to show consideration of the suggestion I gave you.

The part in red, is a personal experience I shared to give you and idea Did you wonder why I added that? I'm not tootin' our imperfect MB horn, I'm trying to throw you a bone, and I don't see you catching this one. It might be a possibility for you.





Are you with me? Not quitting, right?

Yep, with you, not quitting.
And sorry for missing those details.
Yes, I know you can search and stuff in the archives.
My subscription has expired apparently, I learned today, but yes I was subscribed to it, but the year subscription has expired. I'll re-up.

I'll suggest the headphones and listening together. Right now, we both listen during the day while at work.

I agree with you, Markos, everyone , pretty much, on the forum. Humbly, with 6X pages, I feel pretty remedial.

Thanks for staying with me,
Remark

So what I was saying is that listening by topic may help it sink in better.

Poor MB coaches. You can be remedial or you can eventually divorce.
Glad you are all in.

We all feel remedial at some point. But the truth is that everyone needs help for our blind spots. But all you need to worry about is your own blind spots. And maybe someday when your situation is happier, you can help someone else here.

A marriage full of lovebusters is unsustainable. Lovebusters introduce an insidious termite infestation to the foundation of your marriage.

Thanks for filling us in.

DidntQuit, Markos, anyone,

I'm sorry, we've been over this before, but I need to review and clarify, please.

As you know, I have struggled with IB for years. And since becoming a Harley follower, I thought IB was anything that your spouse was hurt by or objected to. So, when she said, 'go to church', or 'go play softball' or 'go to Bible Study group', I was thinking I had her blessings, ie. POJA. However, that was made further murky to me as those "blessings" were sometimes wrapped with "I don't care", or "I'm in withrdrawal".

OK, so let's back up to Dr Harley's definition of IB which is "I define Independent Behavior as the conduct of one spouse that ignores the feelings and interest of the other spouse." Well, by that right there, I can see where me going to any of those three activities ignored the interests and feelings of my spouse. So, I have wholeheartedly, enthusiastically given them up.

I ashamedly admit to judging my IB (going to church, Bible study group, and even softball) as more innocent and righteous than using a website (www.meetup.com) to find places to do things with other people. My struggle is ... how can you compare church-going to strangers salsa dancing? And, I always invited her to come along which I see as another difference, because I was specifically not allowed to attend her IB activities. Markos pointed out that affairs happen within church attendance and Bible Study groups. Yes, I'm sure that does happen. But, I struggle still equating that to being nearly as risky-to-an-affair as meetup.com activities. Is that a DJ?
That, BTW, was the "flack" or challenging comments I referred to.

I am not a sedentary, boring person. I like to do things especially with my wife. I'd love to go on dates with my wife to play volleyball or salsa dancing, or the like, that she has done via "www.meetup.com".

So, that has been my struggle for several years.

My conclusion is that IB is as Dr H states it, based on "ignoring the feelings and interests of my spouse". Though I miss church and worshiping, I can catch that on the web, and do bible studying at home. Re: softball, the draw there was playing with my daughters. I am very comfortable being retired from playing softball. So, those are non-issues any longer.

Now, what do I do with my time if she wants to do nothing with me, or we separate? I can't do those independent behaviors.

Dr Harley mentions "support group" and family when couples separate. Well, my family and Bible Study group are the closest, friends we have; what I'd refer to as that support group. Understand, this Bible Study group loves us both and is not for one of us and against another. They're praying and have prayed for our marriage for some time.

So, please comment on/tweak me where I am off here.

Thanks,
Remark

So you were lying when you said you gave up those activities without reservation because you are planning to resume them as soon as you are out of the house. Is that what you told your wife?

stop writing about how ashamed you are if you are about to do the same thing again.

Instead of writing a novel everyday, change.