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Apples,
I hadn't thought about it when it came up in that conversation.
I know what the Harley program would dictate about dating during separation. It wasn't so clear to me re: IB like going to church.
Changing,
Remark
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So you were lying when you said you gave up those activities without reservation because you are planning to resume them as soon as you are out of the house. Is that what you told your wife?
stop writing about how ashamed you are if you are about to do the same thing again.
Instead of writing a novel everyday, change. Apples, Please let me clarify and more clearly answer your question. Thank you, BTW, for re-engaging with me. Friday night, when that came up in conversation, I was not lying. I told my wife I do believe in Harley principles and posed going back to church and bible study as options if we separate, more as a question not knowing the answer and certainly not thinking it all through to automatically think going to church and bible study should still be taboo, because still IB. Of course, dating is taboo. I struggled lumping going to church and bible study as bad things, especially in the context of being separated. This is now two days later and I have thought it through better, reviewed the definition of IB, and discussed it with JustD2D. Sorry for my confusion and slowness to change, Remark
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Do you not see the disrespectful judgement you are making with regard to the origin of your activities versus your wife's?
PErception: your activities are "good" because they involve family and church but your wife's activities are "bad" because of how she found the group.
Reality: Independent behavior is IB. No justification except abuse.
And did you really just bring up dating someone other than your wife?
I feel like you keep talking about how much you want to save your marriage because when it all hits the fan you want to make it out to be your wife's fault. Like, "oh, I tried so hard but she refused to help." Have you already talked to your "support group" about it?
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Also, you have not let those issues go. If you had, you would not constantly bring them up.
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Remember that Dr. Harley recommends separation as a last ditch effort to save a marriage. If you are going to use it as an excuse to ignore your wife's needs and to resume your lovebusters, you may as well file for divorce now.
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Do you not see the disrespectful judgement you are making with regard to the origin of your activities versus your wife's? Yes, I see that. I think I even asked if it was a legit judgement or a DJ. PErception: your activities are "good" because they involve family and church but your wife's activities are "bad" because of how she found the group.
Yes. I admit that struggle I have comparing church to what appears to be a site of activities many of which are for singles. Just the name www.meetup.com can notes a dating site to me. I am working hard to eliminate that perception, and hope it isn't unfounded.
Reality: Independent behavior is IB. No justification except abuse.
Agreed. I will NOT be engaging in IB if/when I move out.
And did you really just bring up dating someone other than your wife? ABSOLUTELY NOT, I merely used it as an example of what is clearly wrong things to do when separated.
Initially going to church didn't seem so wrong to me. But as you said, " IB is IB". I agree. No longer is that unclear to me or an issue.
I feel like you keep talking about how much you want to save your marriage because when it all hits the fan you want to make it out to be your wife's fault. Like, "oh, I tried so hard but she refused to help." Have you already talked to your "support group" about it?
No. I referenced Dr H, when he talks about separations and the spouse needs support their friends/family, but apparently his context is Plan B, no contact. I confused that context with my own.
I'll not be engaging in IB, or any other LBs.
Currently, I'm trying to figure out hoe POJA will work if separated. How will that work, assuming I want to restore our marriage? If I want/need a refrigerator, do I contact wife, share perspectives, do nothing until mutual enthusiasm? If I want to choose colors to paint rooms, etc., how does POJA apply in situation?
I'm struggling to understand how the Harley program addresses that.
Any ideas?
Thanks, Remark
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Why would you paint rooms in a temporary place you're only getting during a separation? Doesn't really seem like reconciliation is your goal if you're making the place "homey" while you're there.
BW-27
FWH-31
DS-6
Married several years
D-Day- 11/22/13
Plan A+Exposure
NC+Beginning of Recovery-04/2014
In Recovery and happier and more in love than ever
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Remark, when you spoke to Dr. Harley on the radio, he told you to stop trying to use the Marriage Builders program to straighten your wife out. So, when we tell you things, stop bringing your wife into it. Stop taking the discussion to: We are both pretty unlovable to each other right now[s]wife, your volleyball IB is worse than my softball IB and you're not following MB and I listen daily and I think she does too, but she is spent. We know that your wife isn't meeting your emotional needs right now, or you wouldn't be posting, so that doesn't need to be mentioned. You need to deal with your own areas where improvement is needed as a separate issue. She is not going to come on board until and unless you hit the target: build the habits to make enough massive love bank deposits that you exceed the romantic love threshold. The fact that she's unloveable doesn't make you any better - keep it separate. Did you listen to today's radio show? What disrespectful judgments did you make today? What independent behavior did you engage in today? What did you do to make love bank deposits today? Please apply this advice from page 61 Of your thread, and end the debate about IB. Can you please think about why you keep comparing behaviour to make a point to your wife? Would you be willing to recap the message that you are hearing from from Marcos in his advice? How does that apply here to your conversation with your wife about softball conditions vs. volleyball conditions?
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Emphasis on: You need to deal with your own areas where improvement is needed as a separate issue. She is not going to come on board until and unless you hit the target: build the habits to make enough massive love bank deposits that you exceed the romantic love threshold.
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Why would you paint rooms in a temporary place you're only getting during a separation? Doesn't really seem like reconciliation is your goal if you're making the place "homey" while you're there. Wnb, You make a good point, ask a good question. My thinking is because MBRadio has me prepared for a 1-2 year best case scenario. And, I know she has said she wants everything of mine out of the house. I also know she has said she believes our M is over if I move out, as also does Dr H. I'm fighting some long odds. I'd also like to prove I can dress up, fix up a place like our present home which she has done most of the decorating, painting, etc. Doing no IB, I'll have some time on my hands. And, I'll also be entertaining my son whenever he's there. So, some comforts are reasonable, aren't they? I'm not looking for a penthouse suite or anything fancy. I'll be depressed enough. That was/is my logic. That make any sense? Thanks, Remark
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Remark, when you spoke to Dr. Harley on the radio, he told you to stop trying to use the Marriage Builders program to straighten your wife out. So, when we tell you things, stop bringing your wife into it. Stop taking the discussion to: We are both pretty unlovable to each other right now[s]wife, your volleyball IB is worse than my softball IB and you're not following MB I listen daily and I think she does too, but she is spent. We know that your wife isn't meeting your emotional needs right now, or you wouldn't be posting, so that doesn't need to be mentioned. You need to deal with your own areas where improvement is needed as a separate issue. She is not going to come on board until and unless you hit the target: build the habits to make enough massive love bank deposits that you exceed the romantic love threshold. The fact that she's unloveable doesn't make you any better - keep it separate. Did you listen to today's radio show? What disrespectful judgments did you make today? What independent behavior did you engage in today? What did you do to make love bank deposits today? Please apply this advice from page 61 Of your thread, and end the debate about IB. Can you please think about why you keep comparing behaviour to make a point to your wife? Would you be willing to recap the message that you are hearing from from Marcos in his advice? How does that apply here to your conversation with your wife about softball conditions vs. volleyball conditions?
DidntQuit,
I know not to bring mention her in my thread, yet how do I answer some of these questions without doing so?
I keep bringing IB up because I keep getting asked what the difference between hers and mine are/were.
Markos' recap: Don't do the IB. Don't compare me/my behavior to hers. Give up the IB. Instead, focus on the glory that will be felt when marriage is restored. The bible verses talked to loving my partner above all others, everything else, as Jesus loved his bride, the church. Yes, I have notebook with rules, POJA, etc.
Friday night, I tried to have a good time, make deposit. I have given up my IB enthusiastically, but struggle to know what I'll be doing with myself if we separate. No IB; I get that. Did you listen to today's radio show? Not yet, shortly. What disrespectful judgments did you make today? Yes, on my IB versus hers. End of that. What independent behavior did you engage in today? None. What did you do to make love bank deposits today? I'm not supposed to even worry about as I have to conquer LB's, I thought. Friday, we had dinner at a restaurant while son as at a commitment. I was hoping for a deposit there.
Thanks,
Remark
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Do you not see the disrespectful judgement you are making with regard to the origin of your activities versus your wife's? Yes, I see that. I think I even asked if it was a legit judgement or a DJ. PErception: your activities are "good" because they involve family and church but your wife's activities are "bad" because of how she found the group.
Yes. I admit that struggle I have comparing church to what appears to be a site of activities many of which are for singles. Just the name www.meetup.com can notes a dating site to me. I am working hard to eliminate that perception, and hope it isn't unfounded.
Reality: Independent behavior is IB. No justification except abuse.
Agreed. I will NOT be engaging in IB if/when I move out.
And did you really just bring up dating someone other than your wife? ABSOLUTELY NOT, I merely used it as an example of what is clearly wrong things to do when separated.
Initially going to church didn't seem so wrong to me. But as you said, " IB is IB". I agree. No longer is that unclear to me or an issue.
I feel like you keep talking about how much you want to save your marriage because when it all hits the fan you want to make it out to be your wife's fault. Like, "oh, I tried so hard but she refused to help." Have you already talked to your "support group" about it?
No. I referenced Dr H, when he talks about separations and the spouse needs support their friends/family, but apparently his context is Plan B, no contact. I confused that context with my own.
Correction. No, meant, No, I'm not making it all my wife's fault. Yes, I did mention to our bible study group the one night I attended about a month ago. They pray for us often, love and support us both. It's not "my support group". My original answer was in the context of what I thought Dr Harley advises re: support system. But, apparently, that has only to do with Plan B, affairs, and "shining the light of day" on things. But, no support group other than that exists or is involved. The forum is our support group.
Sorry for my misinterpretation of what I thought I was answering.
I'll not be engaging in IB, or any other LBs. Currently, I'm trying to figure out hoe POJA will work if separated. How will that work, assuming I want to restore our marriage? If I want/need a refrigerator, do I contact wife, share perspectives, do nothing until mutual enthusiasm? If I want to choose colors to paint rooms, etc., how does POJA apply in situation? I'm struggling to understand how the Harley program addresses that. Any ideas? Thanks, Remark [/color]
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Do you really think your son gives a crap about paint? My guess is no. Beyond that, Ill leave the rest to the experts. Personally if my husband moved out and made his temporary apartment nice and homey, I would assume he didn't want to move back.
BW-27
FWH-31
DS-6
Married several years
D-Day- 11/22/13
Plan A+Exposure
NC+Beginning of Recovery-04/2014
In Recovery and happier and more in love than ever
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Wnb,
You're right about the paint. Maybe I'm off track. Our house has all the amenities. I'll have very few. No furniture to start with.
Thank you for helping me focus.
I hope you're right.
Thanks, Remark
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DidntQuit,
Did you listen to today's radio show?Yes. It was a repeat and I listened to it again. It hit home on many fronts.
The affair couple, she had been turned around and convicted by her violation of trust of her husband. (that convicted me and hit home to me.)
Successful marriages show extraordinary care and goodwill towards each other. I have been pathetic at that. I seriously spend time thinking of ways to to that daily, yet can't come up with anything in our present situation. When I have chances, like "toilets", I have opportunities to show that kind of care, but blow it.
It took her 18 mos to come around. I don't expect a quick fix. I believe in the program and will persevere mastering it.
Thanks,
Remark
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DidntQuit,
I am not quitting.
Remark
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Good. Be consistent.
It sounds like both of your Takers are popping out.
Instead of pouting, what should you have said in response to her 7 course corrections? (Hint: It has been mentioned several times on this thread.)
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Good. Be consistent.
It sounds like both of your Takers are popping out.
Instead of pouting, what should you have said in response to her 7 course corrections? (Hint: It has been mentioned several times on this thread.) DidntQuit, "thank you for telling me. I will stop doing that." AND THEN STOP DOING IT. DO NOT DO IT AGAIN. Sounds so easy. Understood. Thanks, Remark
Last edited by Remark; 05/06/15 09:25 AM.
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It's not too late to apologize. Please send her a thoughtful email in which you
1. Paraphrase the specific ways that you were disrespectful. (If you don't own it, she has no hope that you will stop.)
2. Reaffirm intentions to listen and learn how to protect her feelings during conversation.
3. Apologize for punishing her with your angry pouting outburst of frustration. (Which is a form if pointing the finger at her instead of listening and taking responsibility for your role in things.)
Right now, your Taker will be finding all the ways in which she is being critical and demanding. Don't go there. Focus on yourself.
Try to not react to her mention of quitting. What can you so for her today to make her day easier for her?
Last edited by DidntQuit; 05/06/15 10:01 AM.
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Maybe not, but your wife appears to be quitting after you let rip with a string of DJs and a very nasty attitude yesterday. What happened?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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