Read the articles on the 3 states of mind in marriage again. It does not say that both spouses will be in the same stage at any given time (indeed, your wife is in withdrawal while you are not).

What does it say about moving through the stages? Does it say that the more engaged spouse is likely to move from withdrawal to intimacy via conflict, or does it say that the withdrawn spouse will do this?

OK, thanks, I'm going looking for that article.

By the way, you shouldn't discuss this with her. You have different viewpoints on this, and you will only end up in one of your interminable discussions, during which LBs will be committed.

Follow markos and Prisca's advice. If she doesn't want to do something, respect her feelings, and try again another time. Keep trying so that by trial and error you find something that she responds to.

Don't discuss whether you need to go through the conflict stage, or anything else related to the MB programme - with the exception that, if she says you are love busting her, accept the information gracefully and don't do it again.

Don't discuss it with her! Just do what it says.

Prisca tells the story of how she used to hiss and spit at markos when he was thoughtful, caring or friendly to her, when she was in the withdrawn stage. She says that it irritated her no end that he wasn't being the monster that she knew him to be, and that she had written him off as being. However, he just kept going, and eventually, and very much against her will, she began to feel the accumulated effect of the tiny LB deposits he had been making all along.

She might well have posted that story on your thread. It's worth re-reading to see if you can find it.

OK, just read the arrivacle. As I understand it, I'm the one attempting to lead us through the passage from her withdrawal back through conflict to intimacy. Yet, if I attempt to help her with something or do something with her, it is rejected.
What am I missing?
Thx, Remark

Sugarcane,
That's a slippery slope. If I attempt to, it's disregarding her wishes, unless I'm mixing apples and oranges. I attempted to assist her with repairing an opened bag of birdseed that a squirrel had opened. I got some duck tape to assist and was told to leave and get on with my life. Where'd I mess up there?
Thx, Remark

Yes, I recall it now.
Thanks, that's a little encouraging.

Thanks, SC,
I found that helpful.

You didn't (unless you said or did anything to imply that your wife was incompetent, or doing it wrong - rolling eyes, sighing, tutting, using body language to make the point of how simple it should have been...) Just accept what she says, and look for another opportunity to be helpful.

I did none of that.
Thank, Remark

If you follow what markos said about his efforts and how they were received, you'll remember that he said something to the effect that he turned his marriage, and Prisca, into a careful, detailed study. She refused to tell him what she wanted him to do for her, and indeed, denied that she wanted anything at all from him. She just wanted him to stay the heck away from her. But, bearing in mind how love bank deposits and love busters work, markos tried to learn what she liked and did not like, and focused on doing things with and for her that she liked, however grudgingly she appeared to put up with him.

I can't remember what the details were now in his case, but if you use that logic with your own marriage, what you could do is try and work out for yourself - don't ask your wife - what she disliked about your trying to help. Try and work out whether she does not like you "helping" with tasks that she is capable of doing herself. Or maybe, like I felt when I was in withdrawal, she hates your watching her all the time and then sticking your nose in where it isn't wanted, offering help when there was no suggestion that any help was needed.

The watching all the time is something my H did when he was anxious about my being withdrawn, whenever we were going through yet another affair-related crisis. I would walk into a room where he was, say, ironing our laundry. I would look for something in one drawer, and, not finding it, look in another. At that point he would jump up, leave the ironing and ask me what I was looking for...and all I could think was "it's none of your **** business! Leave me alone!" and flounce out, probably without the scissors I was looking for. I just wanted him to get on with what he was doing, and if I needed help I would ask for it. His anxiety felt more like neediness to me, and I had no desire to deal with his neediness at that stage.

I don't think you should just not help your wife because she gets annoyed by help. You need to work out when your wife might feel she needs help and when she feels she does not, and find a way to offer help respectfully.

You need to study her responses, and work out how not to irritate her. Observe the things that do not irritate her as much (if she seems to be irritated by absolutely everything), and do those.

Thank you. That helps. I'll try not, then to be discouraged.
Would you recommend I opt to be in a different room than she is, if I walk into the family room, for instance?
Thanks,mRemark

No, I don't think that would help with her being withdrawn, and the two of you being on the brink of separation. What is the problem with being in the same room as her?

Sugarcane,

I get the impression she'd prefer I wasn't in the same room.

I'll not avoid it for a few days and see how that goes.

Thanks, Remark

This is good.

You wrote a while ago about the "missed opportunities" with your wife. She may not allow you to be an active part of them, but maybe you can find a way to help her so that she can enjoy her favorite activities more.

For example, she likes to garden. But does she like to clean up? If not, then help her clean up. Make sure that you do it the way that SHE likes it done. Try to think back to the past, to what her preferences are. And just because she likes to garden maybe doesn't mean that she likes to take care of all outside tasks? Maybe there's a part of it that she can't get to. Think back to what she has said in the past...

In Plan A, you can prove to your wife that you CAN listen to her preferences and find ways to adjust to them.

When you do domestic support, do it HER way. When you do a task, but disregard the pet peeves that she has mentioned before, then that your attempt at domestic support backfires and registers as a lovebuster.

Instead of using the concept of what you are "used to" or how things "should" happen, start using the yardstick of "her preferences" or "her feelings". And Sugarcane is right about thinking to the past for your data, back to a time where she was not in withdrawal.

DidntQuit,

Absolutely. I will redouble my focus on that, doing things like that her way.

Thanks, Remark

DidntQuit,

First, Happy Mother's Day! Enjoy your day, don't even think of replying to this post until convenient tomorrow, or whenever, please.

As apologies are an LB to my wife, so is attempting to join her in gardening, for example, without asking. I attempted to join her in her gardening today, only to fail by (1) not asking and (2) being controlling (not doing it 'her way' as advised above , I think by you or Sugarcane.)

When I joined her, she as pumping up the tires of this of this wheelbarrel-like cart. She was working on tire 1, and she mentioned filling up just that one. I felt the tire closest to me and said "I think they all need filling". My comment with that I joined her without asking made for an unpleasant encounter because she felt I was joining her without asking, (assuming it to be a good thing) and then being controlling on top of that. So, I have to be very careful to ask if I can help her or join her in anything. As well, I have to be very careful not to deviate from whatever she might say ( She said only the one tire, so felt devalued by my comment that we would do them all. )

I realize my 20 yrs of neglect and abuse has caused such hurt to her that it will be a long time if ever that she heals from me.

Happy Mother's Day to all mothers out there.
Remark

Well, it's not Mothers' Day for me, so I'll respond, if you don't mind.

Have you asked your wife to go out with you recently?

Can you suggest something that she normally enjoys, and suggest it for a specific day?

Of course she doesn't want you in the same room! Be there anyway. She can get up and leave if she feels she must.