Thanks so much for the advice. I will search for some threads about the issue; I'm sure we aren't the only ones with the same problem. I guess I was hoping someone would share something like..."we spend an hour together at night, go on one date night a week..." something just to see what it looks like for others.

As for the babysitting... finances are an issue. In fact this is the first year we have had access to the grandparents for help. We had been living about an hour and a half away from them. So they could help occasionally but it had to be planned in advance and they had to spend the night.... We just moved this year to be closer to everyone. In fact, one of the main reasons I wanted to be back was to have the support and HELP of the grandparents (without taking advantage of them). We never went anywhere before without the kids because we simply couldn't afford the date night, much less the babysitter it would take to make it happen. We occasionally had sitters for events we were forced to go to.

We honestly have very tight finances and our already budgeting down to the minimum and can't afford to hire babysitters. So the options are honestly spend some time together at home somehow, or ask for family help.

We bring the grandparents a very nice crock pot dinner which makes them much more eager to keep the kids.

Thank you so much for this advice and specific examples. I really need help in this area. And you are right that I need to be more specific to him instead of generalities, he has told me that as well. Sometimes it hurts to even repeat the things he has done or said.

As far as telling him my health is suffering and some of the other comments you have made; I am saying all of those things, because they are very true. In fact, I have had so many heart palpitations, muscle aches, headaches, that I know are directly related to the stress I feel with us. When I say these things sometimes he takes me seriously and sometimes he acts like I am exaggerating.

I have tried so many times to ask what have I done to make you feel these ways, what can I do to help you not feel these ways.... But I never ever get any direct answers. When he does come up with an answer I never feel like he owns his feelings, it feels like he comes up with something to justify what he is feeling that is not really the reason.

For example, the other morning I had to go to a training for work. Class begins at 7:30 on normal, but the training didn't start until 8. So he still had to be at work at 7:30 where I had a few extra minutes to get ready. I guess he began feeling uncomfortable about the fact that I would not be on campus that day and started treating me strange. When I asked why he was acting the way he was, at first he played it off. Then a little later he said "you sure are getting ready early, why are you so worried about getting ready today..." This may sound innocent, but the tone in his voice and the look on his face just made my stomach cringe. The thing was I wasn't doing anything differently. I woke up a few minutes later than usual and then began going through my morning routine, exactly as normal. I wasn't dressed up or anything like that. I am always running late getting to school in the morning because I am responsible for everything, getting both kids ready, myself ready, letting the dog out, taking the kids to school... So I saw the later start time as "ok, I will wake up a little later but hopefully I can manage to be on time". But in his mind he justified treating me poorly because he convinced himself I was doing things differently. Why is that a reason for jealousy, especially when it wasn't true? I don't think he will admit to me or himself what he is really feeling.

I respectfully suggest that you are coming about this from the wrong angle.

We don't "manage to fit our time in." We schedule our time together first, and then we fit in the other stuff around it.

UA time at home will not be near as effective as going outr on dates. It will not fill your lovebanks. Make it a priority to get out of the house on dates.

Markos has never had an affair. He welcomes me checking up on him because:
1. He has nothing to hide
2. It alleviates any fears or "insecurities" that I have. When I see that he's really not up to anything, it CREATES trust.

You will need to do BOTH. Spend some time together at home, ask family for help, and readjust the finances to pay a babysitter to get out of the house, to leave all those things behind for awhile. I know what a limited budget is, and there IS a way. It just takes being creative. Get used to it now, and consider it a marital care cost.

Searching the threads will give you access to the ideas of many more people than the ones who happen to be posting right now. I know for a fact that Prisca and Marcos have posted their schedule and I have posted ideas. Your questions and concerns in that are a pretty generic and have been discussed over and over.

It also helps make us fantastically close to each other!

in addition to leaving food for babysitters I also try to keep in reserve a few games, books and movies that I know will hold their attention if the babysitter gets worn out.
I also schedule the day to get the older ones worn out and exercised before hand and the little ones napped and rested and cheerful.

I think you are lucky to have grandparents available. I pray every day that someone who is alone and is lonely will be sent our way to be our adopted grandma in a mutually beneficial way.

We pay for teen babysitters as much as can ( same set up where food and backup entertainment is already planned and the only task is to keep the kids safe) , and I am still looking for ways to trade babysitting with other local moms. Hasn't worked out for me yet, but has for others in other areas.

You are being very disrespectful here.
Being disrespectful and treating his fear as nothing will not ease his fears at all.

What are you doing to make yourself completely transparent to him? What are you doing to become integrated?

UA at home is not effective.

UA time at home will not work because he will ignore her. He will not give her his undivided attention. He will divide his attention between her and things at home. Even if the children are asleep.

No woman who is having trouble getting her husband to do UA should be encouraged to do UA at home.

JB, when DQ says you need to do both, keep in mind that the vast majority of your UA time needs to be spent out of the house on DATES. You should strive for 4 - 4 hour dates. That is 16 hours. It shoudl be followed by an hour at home alone in your room.. So that is another 4-6 hours in your own bed.

UA time spent at home is largely useless becasue it is too easy to get distracted by just about anything.

I would sit down wtih a weekly schedule and schedule out your dates. After that, schedule in your working time. Then add some family time. THEN you can schedule time for less importatnt things like coaching, hobbies, etc, if there is still time.

So agree. It is useless and she will only be competing with absolutely everything else. Not even Dr Harley and Joyce spend their UA time at home. It is too distracting.

I'm sorry all, if what I said was misleading. Mel, your first paragraph here is what I was trying to prepare her for. There is some time needed at home for things like planning mtg., doing worksheets,lessons and of course, bedroom time. I agree that getting out of the house looking your best on a 4 hr. date is a must, especially when there are distractions at home.

jkbt, Welcome! Oh my goodness it sounds like you have an uphill climb there, with young kids and such a deep disrespect that your husband would curse you like that.

For UA time, when my kids were young, we took turns having the kids do sleepovers Friday nights with another family with a daughter the same age as mine. So then you get a 4 hour date Friday night, and potentially you could do a date Saturday morning as well. Or maybe your kids can sleepover with grandparents Friday nights. Prisca and markos go to a gym that has babysitting for date nights, I wish I had thought of that!

It sounds like after lack of UA, Angry Outbursts are the biggest obstacle you two face. Have you read Angry Outbursts?

I was never meaning any disrespect to my husband. And I appreciate all the advice. To be honest, I don't think that some of the suggestions are reasonable here. Or don't fully understand our situation.

I do care about his feelings and feel bad and want to help him through his feelings of insecurity. I thought I had been doing everything I possibly could to do that, and it never got any better (it never "created trust" as mentioned before). In fact the more transparent I have tried to be, the more and more these problems happen. What am I supposed to do when transparency is not enough, and when the way he handles these feelings is just downright mean and disrespectful?

I am not trying to be difficult and I completely "buy in" to everything about the program, but I think there are deep issues here and I don't know if I can help him through them.

Off of the issue of feeling insecure, and on to the UA for a minute. Someone mentioned about "coaching and other activities" later..... I'm not sure if I made the coaching part clear. This is not a hobby where he coaches little league or anything like that. This is his job. Our marriage needs to be first, which it is not now, but our family couldn't survive without us having jobs. There is no way for our UA time to come before his job. I am going to have to get creative with how to find the time after his job.

I know some of you may suggest "he should do a different kind of job". This is something he did at the beginning of our marriage (the first 2 years), and it nearly killed us. He was miserable and I was to the point where I didn't hardly like to be around him. It is a much happier person in the career that he is very good at and I want him to have that in his life. Can't he have a successful career and marriage?

As for the dates being out of the house, I understand what everyone is saying, and you are likely right that the attention wouldn't necessarily be there. I guess what I was thinking was earlier in our marriage we used to get in bed a little early, and a lot of time we would goof around together, sometimes have good conversation and sometimes it would turn intimate. If we could somehow bring that back that would at least get some hours started and then try to work in the dates as well?

Since we are both teachers and the summer is getting really close I am hoping that we are able to set a standard for spending time together since it will be much easier to accomplish. Last night he did follow through and brought up the program and we talked quite a bit about it. I think this is a big step forward, but we shall see. He agreed to sitting down Sunday evening and talking about what all was coming up for the next week and to schedule our hours together. Hopefully this Sunday will be our first time to do this.

I very much appreciate all the advice, and I understand people come here and are skeptical, but I honestly feel like our personal situation is not being taken into account. Like the finances for example....

We have come a long way on our finances we spent thousands and thousands of dollars attempting to have our children, much of this was through loans. Some of which have been paid, some of which we are still working on. Our two year old began having medical issues at the age of about 14 months (he is 2.5 now) so we have been seeing 3 different specialist, along with repeated trips to the regular dr. He has also had two upper endoscopes and one colonoscopy in the last years worth of time. I found out I was extremely anemic during the middle of this time period, and had to do very expensive iron infusions. Have not been able to do some of the other medical things I need to do because of finances. Not trying to share our life story, just think that there are circumstances that are not the same for each couple. I think it is assumed that maybe we can handle our finances better and that there is money somewhere. Which I understand because a few years back that would have been exactly true.... But at this point, we are actually being very smart with our money, and trying to come back from the debt that we are in as well as manage that huge pile of medical bills I have sitting right in front of me.

So with that being said, I do understand that our marriage has to be fixed at all cost. I just think I am going to have to get more creative at times to make that happen.

I think someone mentioned sleep-overs. That is hopefully an option in the future, but at this point our kids are too little for that (they aren't even in school yet), plus the fact that we are new to the area and besides our family we don't have friends with little kids, or anything like that.

I have ready angry outburst and you are correct. This is a huge part of our problem. Both he and I. Once I get talked to so horribly I end up exploding. I can honeslty say that for the last week or so (since beginning to read here) that I have really been working on my reactions and I am getting better at controlling myself, and have not yelled in response to him.

He agreed to quite them as well last night when we talked. But one thing I don't think he realizes is how hurtful many of the things he says are, not only the obvious ones. Does that make sense?

Markos has never had an affair. He welcomes me checking up on him because:
1. He has nothing to hide
2. It alleviates any fears or "insecurities" that I have. When I see that he's really not up to anything, it CREATES trust.

[/quote]

I apologize if what I asked was disrespectful or anything toward y'all, I was not trying to come across that way. Just need help understanding if anyone else has ever gone through what I am going through with my husband (these severe feelings of doubt / without an affair that started it).

I am assuming that you have never treated him poorly (or that you don't now) about the feelings that you get? Horrible things have been said / implied to me because of these feelings he has. It is not the feelings that I am upset with. I know he can't help what he is feeling. But I am not a slut or dirty or any of the things that he has said or implied throughout the years. He even will admit he knows I haven't cheated on him and somehow seems to think that he is keeping me from cheating on him from behaving this way. It feels like he is trying to intimidate me into not cheating on him. Which seems so backwards. First off, I would not cheat on him for numerous reasons, and have tried to be considerate and transparent and it does not seem to help. What do I do?

JBK, and he may never feel secure no matter what you do. Some people are just wired like that. What the program would do is teach him to stop committing love busters when he feels that way.


AGree.


Your family is not surviving. You are headed to divorce. How will you survive when you are divorced? I assure you that you won't get the benefit of that coaching job if you are divorced. We aren't asking you to make your family destitute, but you need to find an option that accommodates your marriage instead of the other way around.


You are killing your marriage. So the solution is to find a career that accommodates your marriage.


I would focus on finding a way to get 4 4 hour dates out of the house instead of looking for ways NOT to do that. In the past you were in love and focused on each other. Now you are not.


You are not looking at the big picture. Part of your problem is that you believe you can fiddle around the edges and effect some change. You cannot. You need to be thinking of your finances when you are DIVORCED because that is where you headed.

You need to take a more serious approach to this process if you want to stop the divorce train.

I totally understand and always try to have the kids in the "best way" possible when they go to someone else's house. But at the same time that is not always possible. Like last night we asked for my mom to watch them so we could go to eat and talk about all this. They had both been at daycare all day long so I really wasn't in control of how their day went. The little one was having diarrhea, etc. The big one can be "distracted" not so much with the two year old. He has a very strict diet (medical purposes) which is not easy to manage, he is a climber, he can scale anything. I turned my head for a few seconds one day while cooking and he was 6 ft up on top of a bookshelf! Luckily it was bolted from the top! I am saying this to say, he is not bad, just not necessarily an easy little one to take care of .

What is the standard divorce settlement in your state? How much can you afford living on only your salary and child support? I would figure that out and use it as a point of comparison when making decisions about whether or not you can follow this program.

Think about housing, car payments, etc. What kind of house can you afford on your income?