Coffeegirl, Apples, DidntQuit,

No, I don't think I was. From my perspective, my parents weren't involved.

But, OK, I give up. I want to be Harley husband who values his wife above all others. It feels like I'm coming over to the 'dark side'.

Desperate to change,
Remark
I read a quote on change yesterday. It was "If you don't like change, you're going to hate extinction".

I'll start with one thing from that list.

Explain about the boat, please.

Sugarcane,
I understood/understand that she considers boating my deal, and she wants my stuff gone. Stupidly, I threw an ad out on Craigslist to see if there was any interest without checking with her. That's what that's about.
Remark

You took an independent decision to sell an item of marital properly without consulting your wife. Did it occur to you to put this to her as a suggestion, and to ask her whether she thought it would be a good idea?

No, from the aspect that I know she complains about it, and intends for me to store and/or deal with it. Yes, from the aspect that it is marital property and I really didn't think I'd get any interest, but I know now is the time to find out, not in the Fall.

Yes, it was stupid and I regret it.
Remark

You really can't go on doing things we've told you not to do, and regretting it. I don't think we could have been any clearer about the dangers of your independent behaviour. Where do you think this "IB, regret, rinse, repeat" behaviour is taking your marriage?

You didn't know for sure whether she wanted you to put it in storage, or what she wanted done with it, did you?

Was it beyond your capacity to have simply discussed it with her?

No defensive reply. I understand.
Remark

You understand, but you don't care. If you gave a tinker's fart about how this would have affected your marriage, you would not have taken the first step without talking to your wife.

I'm off to bed, Remark. If I post to you any more, I'll get so angry I won't be able to sleep.

I knew she wants me to store it in the condo I will be moving into to allow her to heal. And I know I won't be using it if she won't be with me. IB, right. And I thought I'd just see if there is any interest in it. And, I know she complains about it being my interest, not hers.
Remark

You W can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the big problem she has with your family is that she feels she plays second fiddle to them.

You have tried six ways to Sunday to convince the forum that your desire to spend time with your family is "reasonable." But that's not the problem. Of course it's "reasonable" for you to desire that. What is NOT reasonable is to expect your wife to feel loved and stay married to you when she comes second to them.

When you say you "give up" and your "want to value" your wife, it sounds like you are just frustrated and defeated because people on here won't tell you "Of course you should put your aging parents first, your wife is the unreasonable one."

This does not sound like you actually do value your W first. It sounds more like you just reluctantly "give up" trying to convince everyone to agree with you.

So you could end up stopping contact with them but not making progress with your W because I doubt this martyr-man attitude that you don't want to put her first but you will if you have to is going to achieve your goal of making her feel loved and cherished like she is your #1.

BTW I have never been clear if your parents are part of the issue or not. Is or is not your wife enthusiastic about you spending time with them? (I'm not asking you to answer me, I know everyone else on her is tired of this topic, I'm suggesting you clarify that once and for all with your W if you are not 100% clear.)

"Sorry" is meaningless when you continue the behavior. The book says "Go and Sin no more," not "Sin whenever you like and just say sorry."

You didn't pay much attention in Bible study. I wonder if you ever confessed to the group that you treat your wife like crap and an unpaid nanny. But you seem to lie to yourself constantly so how you could you?

There is no good reason to treat a dog the way you have treated your wife.
You are still just making a show of trying to reconcile. That's why you told family about the separation. You need a sympathetic audience.

And stealing/hiding money from a soon to be ex wife is SUPER sleazy.

Remark,

what is the reason that you want to reconcile with your wife?
You don't value her, you find her constraining your life and apparently are not in love with her.
You can find a housekeeper for less money and less of a hassle.

I'm really wondering why you want to keep her.
To keep up appearances in church?
Because of the house work? Just to prove your point, that you did nothing wrong and she is unreasonable. She has a roof over her head after all.

My husband is very (ocd-ish) particular about things. When my husband wanted to forbid me to open his mail at the start of our life together, I asked him: If I am not allowed to open and know about your mail, then what am I? The housekeeper? He saw the reaoning behind that and agreed.

Your wife is being treated, like the housekeeper.
You don't bother telling her or asking her input in your decisions. And why should you? She is just the person that keeps the house tidy and raised the kids.
Now that she is hollering and putting up a fuss, you are trying to appease her somewhat so that she won't quit her job.

Her whole problem with you are not the little details on the DJ lists. The entire problem consists of the fact, that you are not considering her your equal partner wife. She is the live-in houskeeper/nanny. The Mary Poppins in your life, that takes care of the practical things, so that you can go on living your life, chatting with your family, spending time with your children, doing your hobbies.

You do not treat her like an equal. You do not even treat her like a benevolent dictator treats his subordinates. You just want to go do your important things without considering her. She just has to function.

Thaat is why I am asking the question: why do you want to be married to her?

You need to read what Dr. Harley said about the rooms in the house. She is still in the wife room.

So, pleas anser my questions:
1. why do you want to reconcile?
2. How where things when you were dating?
3. Did you integrate her more when you were in love, or did you have an old-fashioned idea of marriage, with the woman having no input?
4. Please describe the rooms in your house and how your wife is integrated in them,

Thank you.

Remark, if I understand correctly your wife doesn't want you to have the boat. So, I would apologize for trying to sell it without talking to her, and confirm with her that she wants you to get rid of it, offer to do so and let her know you'd like to hear her ideas about it.

Remark, are there some times when you ask your wife questions like "How would you feel ... ?" and she responds with demands, disrespect, or anger? Responds in a way that is hurtful to you?

Let me clarify that if the answer to this is "yes," I have some suggestions for you.

Markos,

My answer would be No, because I am generally not good at having the vision and wisdom to ask "How would you feel if...". That would be a very good thing for me to do on everything, rather than impulsively doing something that occurs to be OK to me, or assuming I know her position on it.

Thanks,
Remark

You knew she wanted you to store it in the condo? Does that mean she had not said anything to make you believe she wanted you to get rid of it altogether?

Please don't make all those assumptions, Apples.

I have confessed to my Bible Study group as a matter of fact, though I don't think I used your exact words "unpaid nanny". I think I did use the words "treat her like crap".

I couldn't sell the boat without her anyway. I wasn't, am NOT, hiding money from anyone.

I am NOT trying to make a show of reconciling.

I simply think that all family should reconcile, and it just seems cold to me to cut family members out of your life.

My W IS my priority. So, to allow her to heal, I'll be moving out soon. I'll be moving out, having given up IB, and my family, (immediate and extended). All of the above has me reeling.

You are right in that change is a struggle for me and I use "I'm sorry" too much without changing.

Thanks
Remark

Sugarcane,

Having read this post, my wife sent me this email and asked me to post it as her position on the boat.
From JD2D,
"MY recollection from our detailed discussions of the boat is that we were going to split possession of the boat and van, that you'd store the boat and jackets and skis and everything that went with it, and I would keep the van. Then, we could go on boating "dates," and I would show up with the friends you like to invite along with my cooler of food to share and a towel, then at the end of the day say thanks and give you $20 for gas and go our separate ways. YOU would have the sole burden of the related work, expense, and inventory/storage, and I would get to enjoy the day responsibility-free, like you offer to our friends. We discussed how Jake is just finally getting into skiing and boarding and I didn't want him to miss out on the opportunities that your kids had. You mentioned that you wanted to take your older son when he was in town this summer, even suggested that he might want to buy it from us when he moves back to town. You've commented that you don't know what you're going to do with yourself on the weekends, and my response has been that you can go boating every other weekend now, like we used to do. These all require HAVING a boat. "

Additionally, she asked me to communicate to you all, that "Everything you have said is 'spot on'."

So, that is her position on the boat and everything else you all have aid.

Back to the boat, as logical as that sounds, I don't see it as particularly viable to keep a boat I'll use once or twice a year. It still seems like IB to me, if she is not coming along. And, I don't believe I can store it without incurring significant expense. It fits in our present garage. I certainly can't afford to pay for storage. Understand, I'll not have a lick of furniture, or appliances, or anything else. So, I'm trying to 'mature' and focus on life's necessities rather than live for softball and boating as she keeps making references to. As a practical matter, it costs well over $100/day in gas boat to get it to a lake, then boat, and then haul it home. It's just a luxury I don't see viable for a single man my age, who really should focus on retirement income, not to mention furnish his new environment.
Also, the adult son, who made reference a couple of years ago to purchasing the boat, told me Saturday, to sell the boat. And, for the record, we never went boating "every other weekend".

I hope that helps.
Thanks,
Remark

You HAVE NOT given up IB. Don't fool yourself.

You have not even put a plan into place to stop IB.

And you have not responded my last few posts which give a plan for how to prevent IB.

None of these changes feel good initially because they go against our instinctive selfish natures.

You don't have to enjoy making them.