It was in one of the very thoughtful posts that you responded to with "circular verbosity!" and by being pissed off.

"8. After reading the pages of new posts generated on Tuesday, you stomped off saying, �circular verbosity!� I asked what was wrong, and you went into a rant about the posts � the posts that I appreciated so greatly � claiming that they were confusing and contradictory to what I�ve said, obviously pissed off about something. Then you gave a one-line reply to Marcos, dismissing the entire topic and didn�t even answer his questions, much less address the other lengthy posts. From my perspective, the posts were very clear and exactly parallel to what I�ve said, and the people on the forum are putting more effort into our marriage than you are."

Remark,

First off, it's good news that she is giving you this feedback. She is in conflict, not withdrawal, and that is progress. Dr. Harley often warns "She'll come out swinging." You MUST resist the urge to respond with love busters or she will move to withdrawal. She has given you massively valuable feedback that you can use in order to eliminate many of your love busting habits so that you can increase your balance in her love bank.

Which brings me to my next point -

You are still educating her. You are still telling her you don't see her making effort. You are still trying to tell her what she's doing wrong, Marriage Builders wise. I know this is true because it's the first thing she mentions.

Dr. Harley told you on the radio to STOP doing this. Stop trying to educate her, stop telling her she's not making any effort.

Can you stop doing that, or not? If you feel she's not making any effort, simply keep your mouth shut and don't SAY that you feel she's not making effort. It's as simple as that. I had to do it all the time.

When she says she doesn't want to go see them, or have them over, or whatever, JUST AGREE WITH HER. It's simple.


YES. How is this confusing? Don't go. Don't bring them up. Build a happy life with your wife, without them.

Some other points:

1. It's crucial that you make her emails and her questions top priority over everything else. She needs you to be her partner in life, so if she asks you something, it's important, and she needs you. Put off the work fires. If for some reason you have to put off answering her it's going to be a disaster, so recognize that you have to get back to her ASAP with an answer and some help. This is what teammates/partners do for each other.OK, understood then, understand now. I will.

2. You need to spend the entire evening with her. Don't escape from her with television. Don't "relax" without her - find something to do that she enjoys that will be relaxing for you both.I understand. I do what she and son do, I watch what she and son watch movie-wise, TV-wise

3. If you want her to help you with something, like finding your phone, word it this way, always: "How would you feel about listening for my phone while I call it?" Do this for big things and for little things. Accept "no" for an answer. If she says no or looks reluctant, find another solution immediately that doesn't require effort on her part. I shall. Accept 'no'. OK.

4. Engage her in conversation. Don't sit there silently when you take your wife out to dinner. You have four friends of good conversation - bring them in. If you can't get good at doing this ALL THE TIME, your marriage is not going to make it. I understand.

Sugarcane and DidntQuit, Marcos,

I'm sorry for giving anyone short shrift or coming across that way, especially Marcos, (who is a guy and might think more like me, and he and I tried to connect with each other so hard a while back.) I don't deliberately avoid questions. It's part of my non-linear thinking handicap.

I am doubling back to those comments and building that list of agreed upon items.

I too, want to do the online program.

Thanks,
Remark

DidntQuit,

I am apologizing to you for (1) making you go back and point me to something I should have (1.1) remembered myself and (1.2) gone back to find myself instead of asking you to re-direct me to. and (2) for me giving you or anyone taking their time to advise me, short shrift, and (3) frustrating you.

I am making every effort, albeit less than satisfactory, to follow the H program.

Though I fail at many aspects of it, I believe in it, and spend my days working, and on giving much attention to the forum, looking for the advice and wisdom I so lack and direly want/need.

I'm still not quitting,
Remark

Yes that is what I was referring to but I don't have time to go into it.

So in the meanwhile,

Are you willing to follow the ENTHUSIASTIC AGREEMENT LIST idea?

Didnt,

Yes. I'll work on that with her, hoping she'll do it with.

Update: W just said she's not interested in working on such a list when I am moving out shortly.

I get the concept though, and for whatever duration I am here, I will follow POJA, enthusiastic agreement before I do anything.

Thanks,
Remark

Ok. Then make your own list based upon your email agreements. You need a way to focus on your AGREEMENTS and not your differing perspectives. And don't bully her into making up her mind about something. Until she is ENTHUSIASTIC, don't do it. That word, is what takes the confusion out of things. If your wife is reluctantly agreeing to get you off her back, then DROP IT!


Are you willing? You haven't seemed to keep track of her perspective and you have had lots of unilateral behavior.

Good.

Now what about when you can't email? Like when you were out at dinner with son? I'll simply NOT deal with an email is I'm with her. She is the priority then, until we get home or unless she agrees that I should check the e-mail that my phone just 'pinged' about.

You need to think of what's next. Because YOU CAN'T do anything until you ask how she would feel about it. Picture your leg tied to hers. If you go any direction without her agreement, the jerk will flip her over.

"Wife, how would you feel about watching TV or playing a game when we get home?"

"What type of show are you in the mood for?"

And I would definitely say to put your WIFE's answer as the priority. Your son is not equal to your wife. I always do. The night we watched the baseball game, she was logged on working she said, and son and I had her blessings to have the game on.

Did you ever get her a gift? No, I couldn't think of anything, but I came up with an idea Friday. I haven't found it yet, though.

If not, what keeps you from following through?

And I would definitely say to put your WIFE's answer as the priority. Your son is not equal to your wife. I always do. The night we watched the baseball game, she was logged on working she said, and son and I had her blessings to have the game on.


Thanks, Remark

After we got home, you immediately turned on the TV and put on the ballgame with Jake (LB #9). You made the comment that you just needed a few minutes to relax. I asked if you had ever responded to my email earlier in the day, and you said that you hadn't, that you had forgot about it (LB #10), but that you would do so in just a few minutes. You never did (LB #11).

After watching the game for a bit, you offered to me that I could watch whatever I wanted. This put me in the position of being the "bad guy" and changing the channel (LB #12) when you and Jake were obviously already invested in watching the game. I declined (my effort #12), grateful for the excuse that I had brought home some work . Though I ultimately never could get logged into work, I opted to entertain myself with internet videos and articles so you and Jake could watch the game (my effort #13). A short time later, you were asleep on the couch, snoring (LB #13) and I just went to bed wondering, what's the point? "