Didnt,

Sorry, no not avoiding the question, just missed it.

Reasons:
1. She's insisting on a legal separation. So, she's giving me a chunk of the equity of our house.
2. I need some place very close to deal with the transportation of our son to/from school and events, get him after school, etc. Cond is closer than most of the apartments in the area.
3. She wants all of my stuff out of the house, including a boat she doesn't want to sell, but me to keep and store.
4. We separated a few years aog for a few months and I rented an apartment near here. It was full of young adults, parties, noise, etc. (I am 60 and have owned a home for 40 years. Renting an apartment was/is very hard for me to do at this point.)
5. We got killed on taxes this past year. A little interest deduction will help.
6. Interest rates are still down, but will be climbing later this summer/fall.
7. The condo complex near us is very good in that they sell very fast. I'll have no problem selling it whenever.
8. I look at this as a long-term proposition. Dr H says 2 years. So, I couldn't imagine renting an apartment and paying to store stuff somewhere for that long.

To other issues.

What do you mean by "don't be enthusiastic yet"? I'm no, BTW, but resolved that it is necessary from all the forum advice.

And, how is she being thoughtful in insisting I go visit family every 6 weeks, play softball, etc.? She related it to a situation where years ago, her parents separated because (in part) her mother wouldn't allow her father to eat Hostess Ding Dongs. He moved out. They got back together after he ate so many Hostess Ding Dongs, apparently, that he never wants to eat them again. I already don't want to play softball anymore, or do the majority of the trekking to see my family, etc. (The travel should be/have been more equitable all along.)

Thanks for the help,
Remark

The forum here is to SUPPORT you bothh in learning and applying MB principles. You both have lots of lovebusters to eliminate. One single coach who keeps your problems out of the open would be better IMO.

Can you read up in Lovebusters about demands, disrespect and anger?

Then come back and tell us the difference between a demand and a thoughtful request?

DidntQuit,

I can and will. The difference off the top of my head is, the requested can say 'no' to a thiughtful request. A demand , does not allow for a no response at it is at the other spouses' expense somehow.

Visiting my family on a scheduled every six weeks was a condition laid out to me for W to consider reconciling. That makes it a demand. It would not be "at her expense", but it was presented as a condition. And, I know she wouldn't do it with me in the future making it IB on top of that.

The only logic to it might be parallel to her dad and his Hostess Ding Dongs, which also parallels a Harleyism where you can demand something once or twice, but for the long term, it creates an aversion to it.

Am I close?
Thanks, Remark

This is really confusing to me. Can you break it into separate points?

W presented it as I have to visit my family every six weeks while we're separated as a condition for us to reconcile. And, I have to play softball, etc.

She's telling me I have to do all these things that in the past have been issues for us. Her logic is that separated, without her "in my life" , she is not the constraint, and I can't say she is controlling, for example.

As far as I'm concerned , they are IBs that I've given up, except for the family contact issue, that I just committed to Friday.

That help?
Thanks, Remark

Remark-

Could you please double check with D2D that this post correctly reflects what she would like?

Didnt,

Yes, I will.

Thanks,
Remark

Your wife is convinced that she is not as important as your family and IB - the only solution she sees is removing herself and her needs so you can be happy. She's sick of being the bad guy and being needy.

This is not a separation preparing for reconciliation, but one in which she prepares you for divorce. She thinks that once you have the things that make you truly happy you'll leave her be. She feels that unimportant. She is tremendously vulnerable to male attention and being made to feel important - I suggest it comes from you.

Something like:

"I think it's very considerate of you to suggest it, but I'd rather keep working on being a better husband even while we are separated. Visits to my family do not help my marriage, so it will be my decision not to continue them".

"But I want you to go - I insist! I will not be the one that stops you"

"You aren't the one stopping me. I am not enthusiastic about it. I don't want to be that kind of husband. It's my decision too".

"It's a condition of being separated that you do this"

"Sorry but I really don't want to do something that is bad for my marriage. I wouldn't enjoy it."

That's how emphatic about your priorities you need to be.

Didnt and forumers,

I posed that question to my W. And before she will answer that she wants me to ask the forum a question I posed to her at some point.

I asked "regarding demands, what's the difference between her demanding I go to see my family, for example, and me demanding something sex, for example?". All demands are wrong.

I posed that question trying to understand her position that I must go see my family when we separate.

Please respond,
Thanks, Remark

Indiegirl,

You are right and I agree with your sentiments. I'll work to communicate in the understanding, patient manner, you gave good examples of, instead of my response which was "why would I resume IB that I'll give up again if we reconcile?".

Thanks,
Remark

It's difficult for you to get a clear message from her because of her withdrawal. It's easier to PoJA with a wife who is in love as she tell you what she needs to be HAPPY. She makes it very clear.

A withdrawn wife doesn't want you to make her happy, she will tell you it's impossible and to make yourself happy. She actively fights PoJA and encourages IB. So you will need to rely heavily on your side of the PoJA equation. YOU want recovery so YOU don't enthusiastically agree to IB even if she does.

Cheerfully decline; let her know you are not enthusiastic because these behaviors hurt her so much in the past. Let her know you'll be happy to negotiate it with her at some point in the future.

At one point when she was withdrawn or hostile, Prisca ordered me to engage in porn use and leave her alone. I told her there was no way I was doing that. She was trying to trick me into doing something that would justify her leaving me.

This is Remark,

Let me correct the question posed to "What is the difference between W and/or the demanding that I give up my family and me demanding sex?"

That was, apparently, the original context of the question.

Thanks,
Remark

No difference.

No demands should be made in marriage.


Your wife has told you that your interactions with your family and their behaviors cause her pain. You CHOOSE to eliminate the behavior which hurts her. The best way is to stop interacting with them and prove over time that you put a bubble around her and protect her from your own selfish instincts and from others who hurt her. This is true with your family, your kids, your pastor or the President of the USA. As long as your wife is not ENTHUSIASTIC about interactions, you CHOOSE to avoid that situation. YOU consider your wife a part of you, and even while separated you don't engage the frenemies of your marriage.

Didnt,

I agree. You articulated it more eloquently than I do/did.

Remark

That's a first.

Didnt,

I don't get that. My verbosity?

And, you made a comment earlier that you felt sorry for my W re: dating. How so?

Thanks,
Remark

Remark: I think you referring to this:


When you said this:


No Remark. I was just kidding. I know that my writing is not always simple or clear. And that you were complaining about it previously. But once in a while I score. It's all good.

As far as the dating, I was just saying that I feel sorry for your wife if she is at the point where she would date while still married, including legally separated. However, I also understand that this idea is coming 2nd hand thru you, and that she says a lot of things out of desperation, and that I may be presuming some things which aren't the case. So let's drop it please. Please NO lectures, No comments to her about it.

Didnt and forum,

My W responded to my request for clarification to the make sure I understood what she said regarding her telling me to see my family, and other IB's while we're separated as a condition for her to consider reconciliation. She sent me this response:


"My answer. Please post as-is.

I don�t know whether to be in stunned awe or even more frustrated, because strangers on a forum can read through your posts with very little input from me and still accurately summarize my perspective, yet I can spend �all day� explaining it to you in-person and you still don�t understand.

First, you are not on board with disassociating with your family, regardless of how many times you �say� that you are. You wouldn�t still be comparing it to a �demand� if you were. And I find zero value in your martyrdom, on this or any of the IBs you�ve �given up.� I�ve already experienced life with you when you gave up your family for two months, seven years ago. I�m not willing to go through that again. The thought of being on the receiving end of the anger and resentment and blame that would be directed at me if your father dies during that window literally frightens me.

Second, I simply can�t continue to be held responsible for all of the misery in your life. I am the bane of your existence. Seven years ago, you convinced your extended family that you were so miserable that they advised you to divorce me because you�d suffered long enough. Two years before that, you sought out your high school sweetheart and fantasized with her how wonderful life would have been had you two stayed together and avoided all this �mess.� Two years afterward, it was pornography. Throughout it all, you�ve felt compelled to sneak and hide and lie to me just to get what you want. At one point, I began tracking your complaints and over a short period of time compiled a list of 47 character flaws � not complaints about what I �do� but about what I �am.� Even something as intrinsic to day-to-day life as taking out the trash, you categorize as doing �for me,� as if you wouldn�t have to do it otherwise. All this happened while you had the benefit of my financial support, my participation in boating with you, traveling to visit your family, parenting your children, sex and other �wifely duties,� and all while simultaneously investing nothing in me.

I understand that you�re unhappy now, because all of those things have stopped. But you were unhappy even when you had them. I literally cannot come up with one thing you want to save about the marriage besides the financial benefit you�re now losing, especially when all these things that have always been worth compromising the marriage over to you, are things I�m not willing to do with/for you anymore. Giving them up will simply perpetuate your belief that I am the source of all of your misery, and everyone else will continue to believe it too. "


So, that's where she's at. She's hurting bigtime and I understand that and I feel terribly responsible for it. I understand and feel her frustration. There has to be a godly solution to this without committing more LBs!

Still not quitting,
Remark

Remark-
The way you stated that could be interpreted as very disrespectful. It is not clear if you are referring to your own lovebusters or your wife's. It is not clear if you are lecturing her about being ungodly or throwing your hands up as a martyr saying that �only God� could save this. Either thing would be disrespectful, and you need to stop talking in passive voice because it can appear to be a way to hide your disrespectful judgments.


Here is just an quick sample of an alternative idea:

�I am sorry that I didn't take care of my wife like I should have and like she needed. I can see now why she is hurting. I pray to God that I can learn to stop my bad habits and show my wife that I do love her and care about her with my words AND actions. It is NOT the money which is motivating me, otherwise I would be in court fighting. I Want to care for Day in the way that she can feel loved and protected above all else. I AM CHANGING.�


Can you see the difference? I do believe that you want to do this.