BrainHurts,

Yes, I have told him I don't feel safe, and he says he wants to protect me. As for EP's he has closed social networks, his phone is available to me whenever he is home, I was given passwords, but as I have said snooping is limited by company owned equipt. He accts for time and now calls me several times during the day. His IB with money and time has improved a lot. Still not perfect, but so much better. Both of our IBs regarding overnight separation has changed; we no longer do that. He has asked that I let him know when I feel uncomfortable in a situation and we are learning to POJA. That is greatly improved. He had gone months & months with no AO's which really surprised me. But we just had one AO over one of the "slip ups." When this whole thing began he couldn't even get through reading MB without getting really emotional, now he is quite calm and reasonable about it. I have seen major improvements, but issues like the ones I described have popped up when I think by this time we should be past that.

I am somewhat involved with his MH regimen in that I am aware of the meds and what they are for. I also have a background working in MH. I have not gone to his med appts, however, which I'm thinking I probably should do now if he will agree to it. It seems to me there may be some obsessive thinking going on. I'm not sure. Historically this has always been a bad time of the year for him. So much so, every year I dread it. He has said he will make an appt, but his psch doctor has recently moved to another city. It may take some time to get in for an appt.

Those aren't appropriate EPs when your H can just work around all of it.

You can write to Dr Harley on the radio show and ask him yourself about this - he will tell you that you have good reason to NOT feel safe given your H's long standing history of online SSL (6-year EA) and that you cannot recover under these conditions...since we seem to be getting nowhere trying to tell you on this thread.

He can also explain to you that focusing on MH is a distraction and no reason that you two cannot implement MB in its entirety.

I really don't know how else to advise you. This isn't MB, this isn't recovery and you don't seem to be getting it. We would be doing you a disservice if we just patted you on the back and allowed you to continue on this way.

SusieQ,

I knew I wouldn't be coming here for a pat on the back. Sometimes one needs a good kick in the behind. I'm off my rant now. I know you are all right. I'll try to get myself turned around going in the right direction. Thank you all.

What is your plan? Are you going to email Dr Harley?

It's not mental health it's affair fog. He is behaving RIGHT NOW like a man in an affair. The tabloid thing is what men in affairs do. It's always just a joke, or you're being sensitive, or I'm being too insensitive - that's just me.

No! I would take this as a sign the SSL is still on. He'd be far more attuned to you and wanting UA time if it were not.


Spyware on him, polygraph, a job where he works from home are potential solutions.

BrainHurts, Indiegirl,

I've been trying to think it through and consider what the forum has advised me to do. I'm working on writing up a plan for myself for clarifying the issues and the steps I need to take.I'm thinking we're going to need the big guns to work with my H now that he is willing. I consider this forum pretty big guns for advice and holding people accountable, but since I will take SusieQ's advice and not encourage him to join the forum, I will POJA with him about the other MB options because the more I've been thinking about it, I think it may require he leaves the job. I'm going to need a lot of assistance with that one. So I'm thinking that either the coaching or counselling with Dr. H. rather than emailing them or going on the radio show.

Why are you dragging your feet on the poly? If he said he would do it, I really don't understand the hesitation unless you are worried there is more and you don't want to know about it. If you are not worried about him passing, then let him pass and then you can put that part of recovery behind you and move forward.

Why not write into the radio show? Again, I don't get it. It's free and you can get Dr Harley's advice while you decide on your next step. I was ALREADY enrolled in the online program and wrote into the radio show a few times now. Never regretted it. It's win-win.

Really not understanding your lack of action, LW.

SusieQ,
I think I am dragging my feet due to just plain procrastination and fear. I never was a procrastinator, but I have become one about most everything over the past few years. The poly would have to take place about 200 miles from home. After listening to Dr. H's talk I was surprised by the inaccuracy rate. But as the posters here and Dr.H. have said, the effectiveness of setting up a poly is as much about the info the WS provides prior to it. when we did the RH work, and I talked to him about a poly, I certainly did get more info.

I probably fear as much about the poly giving a false reading as learning my H has lied. Maybe I worry even more about that (though I know in reality the poly accuracy rate would be much better than the BS's guess work). Though I know he has lied and deceived me, I still believe there was no PA due to his history and personal OCD quirks( aversions to germs and thoughts about potential STD's from those with multiple partners) and laziness. On-line fantasy SF and an EA for attention and admiration make perfect sense. Still I know anything is possible.

Inertia, fear, strong belief it was an EA, and feeling I couldn't feel any worse even if it was a PA are the reasons, yet I still know you are right. I need to schedule a poly. I know I can only ask a few questions so I have been trying to figure out what I should ask.

I have actually tried to write several letters to the radio show, but I get boggled by what to write because I have so many questions and concerns I get stuck on it. Again, it's plain inertia on my part. I feel like there is something wrong with my brain sometimes as if there is dementia setting in---but I know it is probably years of chronic stress doing it and not dementia. I feel foggy, but I am trying to get my thoughts organized on paper as that has always helped. I am writing out my To Do list for the actions I need to take--the poly is on the list.

I keep thinking of Indiegirl's quote: What would you do if you were not afraid?


Thank you for prodding me on...

You will be afraid but you just have to do all the actions required as though you are not.

A poly is an essential and your fear of it isn't going anywhere until it is over and done with satisfactorily.

I don't really understand why you are afraid of the inaccuracies. That simply means that the test cannot measure absolute truth, they can only measure what the WS believes is true.

That might not be good enough for a court but it is certainly good enough for a BS!

The polygrapher will phrase questions succinctly so as to avoid false readings. Fewer questions mean fewer inaccuracies. A good one is asking all your questions before the test and then having the polygrapher ask the one q: "Did you answer all my questions truthfully?"

You aren't going to feel better about the still-lurking hidden truths by ducking them. The longer you drag it out, the longer you are going to feel afraid.

I also don't understand why you just don't write Dr. Harley? If they have questions from your email they will ask you.

Indiegirl,

I know my thinking about the poly makes no sense at all--the "what if" fear, as in what if he was telling the truth and the A really was a EA not a PA, but he failed it and the results were not accurate. I would go through the rest of my life thinking he had a PA. For some reason that seems almost worse than the reverse to me. I don't know why. I know that is highly unlikely though so I spent time today doing some research on polys. From that I got some ideas as to questions I might ask and how they should be worded. I will plan to make a call to the agency tomorrow. I like the sample question you gave me. I hadn't thought of asking that question.

Do you fear the poly because you don't plan to leave no matter what the outcome? Which means the outcome, if bad, could just add to your worry and resentment, not take away from it?

I really don't think you need to fear believing the wrong thing for the rest of your life! The truth isn't like that. It makes itself available to anyone looking for it and lots of people who aren't.

If you failed a polygraph and were unfairly lumped with a PA, you would ask the polygrapher what went wrong and how to pass. You'd resit. But there would definitely be a reason why you had failed, physical contact with a stripper or something like that, and you'd have to come clean about any hidden half truths before expecting to pass.

BrainHurts,

I will decide on one or two questions today, and I will email the Harleys. Thank you for your encouragement.

Indiegirl,

I get it now. I understand how the truth can be ferreted out on a poly. Thank you for explaining that to me. I'll call the poly agency today. Boy, that honesty thing is a real stickler, particularly for us women, isn't it.

Unwritten,

Good question. Yes, that could be very true, and if I did stay under those circumstances I would find it very hard to respect myself. To be honest, I don't really know what I would do. I would want to leave, but it is almost unthinkable at this point. Other than my child and her family, I have no one but my H. and his family. That is it. He is my family, everyone else is gone.

And there is the resentment. Back a number of posts ago, a few posters said they were shocked by my attitude when I had said I didn't "give a sh**t. Well, I'm shocked I said that too because it is not true. I do care and have always cared. I think it was the resentment poking up its ugly head when I said that.

I'm angry at myself too. I grew up in a generation of women with one foot in the 1950's and one foot in the 60's/70's. There began to be some choices about careers and family. I chose the more traditional road. I didn't put a career first as some did because my H seemed to require a lot of attention. I worried a career for me would lead to a D, and it probably would have. I worked as much or as little as our life demanded. In doing that I had to put my life in his hands so to speak. I was very dependent financially. I always second guessed myself about allowing myself to be so vulnerable while other women were now making careers for themselves. In other ways , I am quite an independent kind of woman(I've had to rein that IB too) In order to handle the precarious financial circumstances I was allowing myself to be in, I think I really had to lock down my fears and insecurities to really trust my H. with my life. And I did trust him! I'm wrangling with all that resentment now. If I'd done things differently maybe I wouldn't be in this predicament at this late date in my life.

This kind of looking back at the "I should haves" is very unproductive, I know. I need to get past the resentment while holding the bar high. As I said in my previous post to Indie and BrHurts. I'll get on the ball with the poly and the email to the Harleys today.

It is true that poly's can encourage the WS to come clean, before a passed poly or after a failed one. But the worse scenario (IMO) is a failed poly and the WS casually faulting a inaccurate poly for that fact, and/or refusing to take another one. Because then you are left with more questions than you had before the poly. You still don't know the truth, you just know there is still more lies, yet meanwhile wanting to toy with the idea that it is *possible* the poly was just wrong. What a mental mess that creates.

So, plan for that possibility in advance. Make a plan of what you would do in that scenario.

I had my WH take a poly. Had he failed I would have 100% believed that he was protecting secrets and that he had no intention of ever telling me what those were. I could not have stayed in a marriage like that and would have divorced.

Yes, Unwritten, that "mental mess" of a senario had been rumbling around in my mind also. So how does one go about choosing between two unthinkable options? I know the MB concept that separation can be the best chance at saving an M if one wants to save it. But then the question is of course, would I want to save it with all that lingering unsurity. I think I would remain paralyzed.

This whole conversation I have been having on this forum in the past few days has really gotten me to do some hard thinking.

One of the first steps I have on my "To Do List" is to re-connect with my religious community with whom I was once very involved with. When I went through what my good friend refers to as my "decade from hell" I withdrew from most everything, even my faith community. During those years the marriage was not the primary problem even with all of its exsisting problems. We actually hung together in a pretty supportive way...I thought. Now of course I realize my H had really abandoned me in a most important way. Anyway I had thought that horrible decade was finally over, and I finally had some room to breathe, but then that is when I began to take a close look at the marriage and some troubling signs and my decade from hell just got extended.

I realize I need to have some faith that no matter what happens, I will be able to handle it. I need the support of my caring faith community; I need to get back to them. I need to find my faith again.

Indie and BrainHurts
I'm waiting for call backs from two different agencies who do polys and I have gotten my thoughts more organized. I have written up my concerns and a couple of specific questions to Email the Harleys.

lightwalker,

I do want to say to you, that my MIL who is in her 80s never had the guidance to take the steps you are taking now. I believe you are in your 60's and I suspect had my MIL insisted on a confession, polygraph or apology in her 60's she would not be in such a horrible state of limbo and hatred now.

There is a cumulative effect of lies that go on for years and decades that is toxic.

Gamma