My DW and I are married 15 years, I work, she is SAHM. We married young (after HS for her), had first kid right away, never really had other relationships, came from a very conservative background and from solid but somewhat authoritarian homes.

For the first 10 years SF was great and averaged close to once a day, sometimes more, even when kids were small babies. More recently it has slowed down a lot, largely due to her not wanting it as often and/or being tired. Although once we do get started, she pretty much always enjoys it and is "satisfied". She has had some hormonal issues, but this year has finally lost all the baby weight and is now in the best shape she has been in in 10+ years and she looks great. I'm in good shape/attractiveness as well. Regarding the SF specifically, she has recently started a habit of almost instinctively resisting my advances, although most of the time another part of her will realize that isn't right and she will offer herself a few minutes later - if she isn't already asleep. She is a very nice person and has initiated herself, pretty much as she has always done, but it seems to me more of a thought out thing - and maybe twice a week on her good weeks - and only maybe once a month is she actually desperate for me, whereas that used to occur anytime it had been 48-72 hours without. I have largely stopped initiating because I noticed the habit of instinctive rejections and realizes something else is at the root.

So last night we had a very long talk. She said that the sex issue wasn't anything I'd done, just a lot that was in her head. I'm confident as I possibly can be that there is no EA or PA going on. We got married before she really knew what she wanted and she admitted that she has changed. She said that for several months or longer she has regretted that she never got a college degree and doesn't have a vocation or purpose other than to be a mom and wife. Her upbringing taught that was all she needed to be fulfilled and she bought into that, thinking that a husband/home/family was all she ever wanted. We have long since left that lifestyle behind, and while we are still Christian believers, we had completely different friends and church and outlook on life. Many of her friends have professional careers or businesses and kids. A few of her friends are feminists. So currently she is either in a funk or depressed about how "life happened to her".

I dug deeper and discovered that while we both love each other and the kids, she (and I) both regret not using birth control at the first of the marriage so she could go to college. But in her mind, she has without consciously realizing it, been resenting me as the marriage to me is what triggered the first pregnancy, and her too early "entrappment" into motherhood. I asked her to separate the "lie" that a woman's only place in life is to be a SAHM from the truth that our marriage was NOT a mistake and that marital fulfillment and SF can be a blessing and excitement to both of us, and that it isn't just a hyper-religious "Dugger style" submission principle.

But she has desired to become a lot more independent recently. Her hobbies are things I don't enjoy, while some of my hobbies she doesn't enjoy. There are still some things we like to do together, but often she would rather take a bath and watch NF or browse pinterest.

I totally support her wanting going to college (locally of course), and starting a business if she wants. And I am totally committed to finding Joint Agreement activities we both enjoy to increase our time spent together. But what to do when the person you married has changed so drastically that the things she can enthusiastically agree to aren't very compatible with mine anymore? What if her emotional needs are mostly around self-actuallization and more compatible with singleness?


P.S.
We did end the night with a shower together and some very sleepy SF,
and then woke up with me leading her back to the bedroom after starting the coffee pot, although she did initially start to say "no" due to her new "instinctive refusal".

I can tell we have some issues to work thru but I think we can get back to a very good place. However a little part of me wonders if she and/or I could have changed so much since our "youth" that we can't be that close again.

Everything going on here sounds exactly like someone who has a new point of comparison.

You are too quick to dismiss the possibility of an affair.

You should quietly snoop and gather Intel to absolutely rule it out.

I have "snooped" if you want to call it that, although snooping isn't really necessary with her. She is very open with her phone, FB chats, and everything.

Her calls and chats are all with a few girlfriends that I know well and trust and who are happily married themselves.

What have you done to rule this out?

IF there is no one else in the picture, the MB program can teach both of you how to create compatibility. Have you read any of the Basic Concepts?

And I totally know what she is doing when on the computer. Its always NF sitcoms, or pinterist. It seems like escapism to me. At some level she is depressed.

Could she be susceptible to an affair while depressed? I recognize the possibility and want to protect her, but I have my eyes wide open and see no evidence that she is getting those needs met from another man. And she isn't getting her physical needs met from another woman as best as I can tell, from herself either. She has just suppressed the physical needs to a large extent.

I'm on her phone and her computer all the time. I can she what she has been up to. I'm also much more technically savvy than she and she is not good at keeping secrets. Half the time she can't even buy me a birthday present online without me accidentally figuring it out.

Hi DBack, welcome to Marriage Builders. What is happening here is that your wife has fallen out of love. Women need 2 things to desire sex: an emotional attachment to the other person and the prospect of enjoyment. It sounds like she does enjoy sex with you, but is no longer in love. That can be changed.

In order to sustain romantic love in a marriage, a couple needs to spend at least 15 hours of undivided attention time. [time out together alone] Very few couples do this. The result is that after a few years the couple falls out of love. Losing desire for sex is the first sign of this. It is the dead canary in the mine.

But this can be changed if you and your wife will follow this program and start scheduling at least 15 hours per week together. She will fall in love again. Women who are in love are typically eager to have sex.

One thing that I suspect, though, is that your wife is making love to you out of a sense of obligation and sacrifice. If she is doing this, it will make it much harder to turn this around, because she can develop an aversion.

It sounds to me like you have had a very satisfying marriage and I predict it won't take long to turn this around if you take a serious approach to this program. You have a chance that most don't have because most people come here in much worse shape than you.


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I just discovered this site yesterday morning and have been reading almost non-stop since. I've forwarded her a few articles, especially the ones about spending x hours per week together alone and doing an overnight periodically. Its been over a year since our last overnight trip alone and away from home, and schedules - a work trip, kids activities, scout campouts, family BDays, recitals, and menstral periods have all conspired to keep us from getting anything scheduled yet.

We do have date nights at least 3 times a month and take 15-20 min walks around the neighborhood about once a week and those are nice but compared to what Dr H is advocating, it may not be nearly enough.

I don't think you understand the intent of emotional needs. They are not "needs" like air or water. They are needs that lead to romantic love in marriage. A "need" to be single or do "self actualization" <?> will not create romantic love in marriage; it will destroy it.

Every person changes over the course of a marriage, but compatibility is created; it is not achieved by accident. As needs change, behavior should change accordingly. For example, if my H has a stronger need for conversation than he had 15 years ago, then I change my behavior to meet his need. And vice versa.

If her desires are not compatible with marriage, you won't be married for long. The key is to find activities about which you are both enthusiastic. If it is not good for your marriage, it should be rejected. I have no idea what "self actualization" means so i can't comment on that.

I agree that this is not enough time to sustain a marriage. Your marriage seems to come LAST, after everything else. As long as that is the case, your marriage will suffer. And that will get worse, not better.


The key is to schedule 4 - 4 hour dates FIRST and then all this less important stuff comes after that. My H and I sit down on Sunday afternoon and schedule out our date nights for the upcoming week. Time that is scheduled is much less likely to be put off.

As far as spending time on your kids activities, keep in mind that your marriage is the most important thing in their life. Boy Scouts, recitals, etc are not that important. While i know that you can continue to do that stuff, I would put your marriage FIRST, not last. Your family's security depends on your marriage.

I would really like to do this. Its a little difficult though to convince her to prioritize that much "us time" ahead of "THE CHILDREN". She home-schools one of the kids because kid has learning issues. She often feels guilty even taking time for herself before the kids are in bed and now that they are teens/preteens, they just won't go to sleep before 10 at the earliest and 15 minutes after that she is often too tired to do anything except veg and not talk.

Regarding MB program, I would like to get her on-board but don't want to force her. She has an increasing independent streak despite all her self-second-guessing. She often sees me as controlling even when all I want is to help her fulfill her own intentions - for example, she will say - tomorrow I'm going to workout at 9 am bootcamp class. Then in the morning she waffles and doesn't feel like going. I say that I think she should go because she intended to the night before. Obviously I can't make her go. At that point, she either goes and likes it, or she doesn't and resents me for being controlling.

This morning, it was the former. She got distracted by several incoming phone calls and I called her and suggested she just leave the house, get to the gym, and figure out the evening schedule later. She called me after class and said she had fun and thanked me for helping her get out the door.

I think part of the issue is that she does depend on me for some things, but part of her hates that she has to depend on me.

Thanks for that. I agree. But coming from me it doesn't hold as much weight. Especially when everyone around us has their kids in twice as many activities, and only 10% of friends with kids are divorced.

We also both have large and rather close extended families. My wife isn't co-dependent on her mom or dad, but her example has always been one of saying yes to everyone except those the very closest to you (selflessness taken to its illogical conclusion?). Its a constant fight to keep the activities and family gatherings/weddings from over-taking our lives. Sorry to just vent, but it wears me out.

I would work over time to convince her how important being in love is to your children. There is nothing more important than 2 parents who in love in a happy, satisfying marriage. Nothing. The fact that she spends so much time tending to you all, probably is one of the reasons she wants to escape. She has probably got into the bad habit of sacrificing, which is terrible for marriage. But going out on dates would give her a welcome relief and make her life satisfying if she would give it a chance.


Most women would resent such a comment because it is a disrespectful judgment. Comments like that cause spouses to fall out of love. She is a grown up who is fully capable of deciding if she wants to go to the gym or not. I would very much view that comment as controlling, because it is.

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I would strongly suggest you get the book, Lovebusters, and read it so you can identify behavior that is ruining your marriage.

Also, is it possible for a wife to have a non-physical EA with another woman? Or is that just a normal girl/girl friendship?

50% of marriages end in divorce because of neglect. What you describe above is neglect. I understand you need to persuade her. I would introduce her to this concept with this article: Caring for Children Means Caring for Each Other


This program resolves such problems with the policy of joint agreement.

Another way you can sell her on this program is enlist Dr. Harley on his radio show. You can send him an email at his radio show and he will help you. [it is free] Instructions here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

We have seen it many times on the board for spouses to have same sex affairs.

Melody,
I can see why that sounds controlling. And there are other areas where I have been even more controlling, especially in the past. Though we both agree I've worked on that some.

Where I probably need to focus is those issues where she is conflicted inside her. She has said I can appeal to her and discuss the issue but not tell her what to do. Sometimes, I do this right and I can offer to take other distractions from her (like grocery shopping) so she can go to the gym - because that is usually what she actually wants to do. But me pushing her is where I've been wrong.

But what about the concept of accountability? If she is going shopping with her mom and promises to be home by 6:30, but isn't home until 7:30 (which is the situation as I am typing this), how should I address that?

Telling your spouse what to do will always be a disrespectful judgement.

"It bothers me when you come home late."
The big problem here is that what she is doing is bothering you and withdrawing love units. Phrasing it in terms of "accountability" will come off as disrespectful. Stick to how it affects you. "It bothers me when ..." is the standard Marriage Builders way of making a complaint.

Prisa is exactly right. I would only add that you should probably do some sleuthing and make sure she is where she says she is. I am seeing a few red flags here that really need to be ruled out.