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Yes, I'm working to brainstorm something that honors JD2D without me feeling like I neglected a father's obligation when it's Father's Day and the stars are aligned such that his kids and grandsons are all in town at the same time (a rare occurrence). I don't understand why having the stars aligned such that the kids and grandkids are in town is necessarily exclusionary towards JD2D. Honestly, your stupid paragraph here upsets ME and I don't even know you.
Last edited by Sunnytimes; 06/17/15 09:09 AM.
Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.
Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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Yes, I'm working to brainstorm something that honors JD2D without me feeling like I neglected a father's obligation when it's Father's Day Remark, your obligation is to your wife. "Forsaking all others." She comes first.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Remark, just to clarify, you are spending fathers day with your wife, right? No time spent out in some other activity with your children?
Don't blow this one. I agree. Don't blow this. You assumed that because you have done something for 30 years you should keep doing it. Stop assuming. How do you think that you can solve the independent behavior mess you made by planning a trip for yourself and son, before planning the day with your wife? It didn't quite happen that way. The son from Australia starting asking what I wanted to do for Father's Day. He and our younger son also had a Facetime conversation when I wasn't home also.
Still, I understand that I should have immediately put a stop to any and all discussions without her involvement and approval, even though we're talking about a separation.I suggest that you prepare an apology for your wife in which you let her know that you refuse to go with them, and that you would like to fix this mess in a way that works for her. Part of your huge mistake is that you discussed all of the activities with all of your kids, and Day was the LAST one to consult. Again, not quite accurate. One daughter does not yet know we're even struggling and probably separating. That is Backwards!! When Anyone asks you Anything, put a spacer in like, let me get back to you on that. Then check with Day for her thoughts. If she is not enthusiastic then tell them that it won't work out this time. Maybe Day would like to send son 5 to spend the weekend with his siblings? Ask Day if she will be enthusiastic about that since you won't be going. Didnt, It is true that the kids pinged me asking what I wanted to do for Father's Day. And, as a rare occurrence, all of hem, two spouses and our two grandchildren will be in town on Father's Day. No plans have been made, only questions asked and things suggested. I believe her discomfort with my kids is simply based on her discomfort with me and her and most of them knowing we are probably separating. With son coming into town and them asking about Father's Day, I felt I had to share that. She opted not to be involved when I asked her if she cared to be there when I told them. Of course, I don't want to blow this one. And, of course, I can understand everyone's discomfort now. Since you and others on the forum are urging me focus on JD2D over myself and my children, that is what I'll do even on Father's Day. Meanwhile, what should I do if JD2D doesn't want to do anything with me, forgetting the kids and the fact that it's Father's Day? In the below, biking and float trips, and Botanical Gardens are in her areas of interest, not just mine. (Well, the Botanical Gardens is most definitely hers more than mine.) Proposed Apology: "Dear JD2D, I am so sorry my immediate reaction when the kids started asking "What to you want to do for Father's Day?" wasn't "let me check with JD2D." And, I certainly will not put them over you in terms of my priority. Please understand that. To prevent such incidents in the future, I will always simply say "let me check with JD2D" in any and all such opportunities like this or life jackets, etc. If you aren't comfortable around them, that is fine and I accept that. I truly value you and your opinions, your feelings, over theirs. Please, is there something we can brainstorm for Father's Day that you would be comfortable with and we could both do together, with or without them? Would you want to just drop Jake off to see his siblings and nephews since they're in town and I'll do something different with you? They could do brunch or something. You and I could go to the Botanical Gardens if you'd like or anything else you might like, or have brunch with your parents. Or, you, Jake and I could do something like a bike ride and brunch along the trail. Would you, Jake and I like to go on a float trip? Do any of these ideas strike you as fun alternatives? Please help me do the POJA process with you on this. Love always, Remark"
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Remark, your obligation is to your wife. But what she's seeing is that you will either go with the children, or you will be surly and make her miserable if you don't.
Can you understand why this upsets her enough that she doesn't want you around?
The solution is to NOT go be with the children and to NOT be miserable about it in her presence. Your children are grown and do not need you. Your marriage is until death do you part. ALL care that you provide other people has to be subordinate to your wife.
I practice this with my children today and they are not even grown. I do not provide care for them that my wife is not enthusiastic about. If that means they go without for a bit, then that's what happens. They are quite happy and well-adjusted, and the main factor in that is that their parents have a happy marriage.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Yes, I'm working to brainstorm something that honors JD2D without me feeling like I neglected a father's obligation when it's Father's Day and the stars are aligned such that his kids and grandsons are all in town at the same time (a rare occurrence). I don't understand why having the stars aligned such that the kids and grandkids are in town is necessarily exclusionary towards JD2D. Honestly, your stupid paragraph here upsets ME and I don't even know you. Sunny, I'm sorry. Why does it upset you? What am I saying that is upsetting? "Stars aligned" simply means all of my kids in town at the same time only happens for weddings and funerals, at best, these days. It's not exclusionary from anyone's perspective except W, perhaps, and that is the issue. Yet, she plays Words with Friends with two of these kids and the one visiting from Australia, she is/was pretty close to. I am the one she is most upset with. And, since it is Father's Day, the kids are asking what I'd like to do. And, of course, I only want to do something that includes my W and she is comfortable with. So, that's my quandary Remark
Last edited by Remark; 06/17/15 09:46 AM.
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W wants me to meet with the five kids, even go camping or something. According to her, going camping with the kids shows you are putting them before her. So I wouldn't do that. I'd find something she likes to do and do it. Don't ask her to figure out what that is: figure it out yourself. Markos, We wouldn't do the camping thing on Father's Day. Boating and camping are passions of the kids and me, and JD2D dealt with in our early years. She suggested it knowing the Australia son and our youngest son had discussed this on a Facetime call they had (from Australia) a couple of weeks ago when I wasn't home, apparently. The son from Australia will be home for 10 days. So, W is suggesting the three of us do that for a couple of days while Australia son is in town. Our son, age 15, is close to our 26 yr old son who works in Australia. Anybody can suggest anything. But Remark, you should never agree before consulting with Day. Remark, it doesn't matter what happened and who was excited and who lives where. You did things out of order. Your flow chart is broken. You were out of line to assume biz as usual and impulsively plan without her and act unpleasantly because we are telling you not to do it. Please stop acting confused when you are really disappointed. You are a grown man but you are destroying your marriage because you can't stand disappointment. Yes, I'm working to brainstorm something that honors JD2D without me feeling like I neglected a father's obligation when it's Father's Day and the stars are aligned such that his kids and grandsons are all in town at the same time (a rare occurrence). THIS IS THE PROBLEM!! You are being selfish here. You want to look good at your wife's expense. And you're disrespectfully judging that your wife should let you look good to your kids. This is controlling behavior. Especially because when you don't get your way, then your wife will take the hit. You will punish her by being irritated and showing her your resentment.. That's why she sees no other choice than to give up on your marriage. She can't be bullied any longer, into just putting up with you putting her last. Why would she want someone who is so self-centered? She shouldn't have to fight just to get you to see that you are married to her and not your kids. Your internal picture of marriage is way off the mark.An adult daughter who plays Words with Friends daily with JD2D, reached out to ask JD2D if she had any plans for Father's Day so as to include her and not interfere with whatever she might have planned. JD2D declined to be involved and said she and our son would do something some other time, as I understand it. This is because your kids have learned from your example that you make decisions independently of each other. But you aren't doing that anymore. You are united with your wife now. How far someone has traveled does not change that fact. How embarrassing for you that your adult daughter feels a need to plan directly with your wife because you haven't. Stop all of this chaos and do NOTHING, and don't talk with your kids about it until you have gone to your wife and cleaned up this mess YOU created. It's called restitution.Because JD2D describes it as me "wanting my cake and eat it too", and at the same time, wants same out of the house, I am really struggling with this one. She is conflicted because you have beaten her down and sent the message that she is last for you. Now you have to fight for what's right, without her support. That's how she's felt for years!!! Your irrational emotions are making this complicated for you Remark. You have a chance here to be the hero here. You are making a choice right now. Fight for your marriage or not. You confirm that choice daily by your internal decisions and outward behavior. Thanks, Remark
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I am the one she is most upset with. And, since it is Father's Day, the kids are asking what I'd like to do. I would leave out the fact that this is Father's Day. It's just like any other day. I would ask JustDaytoDay if she'd like to have the kids over, or go out to eat with them. If she says yes, then we'd do that, otherwise I'd drop the suggestion and not bring it up again until I thought of something else. If I didn't think of anything else, we'd miss seeing them this year. But that would be okay with me, because I would be willing to bet the whole farm on this and go all in for my wife and my marriage.
Last edited by markos; 06/17/15 09:57 AM.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Are you seeing a counselor who is telling you that your wife shouldn't make a big deal about the toilet or life jacket? If so, fire them, because they are teaching you to be disrespectful, and they will wreck your marriage. Remark, I didn't see an answer to this. Maybe I missed it.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Would you mind telling us exactly what you told your kids about the separation? Did you refer them to Dr. Harley's materials? explain that you have been an extremely difficult person to live with? That your wife should never had to put up with the way you have (and are) behaving?
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Seriously, how do you celebrate Father's day without the Mother of your children?
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Yes, I'm working to brainstorm something that honors JD2D without me feeling like I neglected a father's obligation when it's Father's Day and the stars are aligned such that his kids and grandsons are all in town at the same time (a rare occurrence). I don't understand why having the stars aligned such that the kids and grandkids are in town is necessarily exclusionary towards JD2D. Honestly, your stupid paragraph here upsets ME and I don't even know you. Sunny, I'm sorry. Why does it upset you? What am I saying that is upsetting? "Stars aligned" simply means all of my kids in town at the same time only happens for weddings and funerals, at best, these days. It's not exclusionary from anyone's perspective except W, perhaps, and that is the issue. Yet, she plays Words with Friends with two of these kids and the one visiting from Australia, she is/was pretty close to. I am the one she is most upset with. And, since it is Father's Day, the kids are asking what I'd like to do. And, of course, I only want to do something that includes my W and she is comfortable with. So, that's my quandary Remark "something that honors JD2D [but] obligation to Father's Day"..... paraphrased: "she is so self absorbed that she needs to be honored on Father's Day, when I should be honored...." What a weird, disdainful turn of words! It shows a cold and distant heart towards her; a lack of desire for her. What about that you just want to enjoy your time with her instead of without her because you desire and love her, and naturally assume that she would be an integral part in the rare star-alignment-family visit? Your paragraph is full of positioning that marginalizes her, exalts your own honor...how many times can you repeat FATHERS DAY FATHERS DAY FATHERS DAY when it is quite simply a weekend that all the kids happen to be in town for other reasons...yet you are sucking it all up for yourself to be honored on Fathers Day... May I suggest that you start referring to it as "the weekend the kids are visiting"? I simply can't imagine converting such a wonderful alignment of the stars for a visit to a hullabaloo about it being FATHERS DAY and excluding JD2D from it. In my family when we get such a delightful opportunity visit we all integrate our time so no opportunity for moments together are missed. Your instinct is to do that but exclude JD2D because you want to call it Father's Day. It's not exclusionary from anyone's perspective except W, perhaps , and that is the issue. Good grief! After ALL of the discussion on this board about your self centered plans that exclude JD2D you are now throwing this out as a side comment... acknowledging perhapsidaisically that she's the only one who's being excluded with the implication of it being no big deal.
Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.
Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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Yes, I'm working to brainstorm something that honors JD2D without me feeling like I neglected a father's obligation when it's Father's Day and the stars are aligned such that his kids and grandsons are all in town at the same time (a rare occurrence). I don't understand why having the stars aligned such that the kids and grandkids are in town is necessarily exclusionary towards JD2D. Honestly, your stupid paragraph here upsets ME and I don't even know you. Sunny, I'm sorry. Why does it upset you? What am I saying that is upsetting? "Stars aligned" simply means all of my kids in town at the same time only happens for weddings and funerals, at best, these days. It's not exclusionary from anyone's perspective except W, perhaps, and that is the issue. Yet, she plays Words with Friends with two of these kids and the one visiting from Australia, she is/was pretty close to. I am the one she is most upset with. And, since it is Father's Day, the kids are asking what I'd like to do. And, of course, I only want to do something that includes my W and she is comfortable with. So, that's my quandary Remark Stop bringing up separation. If anyone brings it up to you, just say that your wife is your highest priority and you would prefer to not talk about your marriage.
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Remark, tell us all the ways you were disrespectful in the last 24 hours?
And don't say you weren't disrespectful. Your wife says you are disrespectful every day. You were even disrespectful about her on this forum. Markos, I didn't see my wife until 12:30 AM last night. I came home from work around 5:00 PM, let the dog out, went to work on the condo. Around 9:30, as I cleaning up to leave, I laid down for a minute, thinking, no way will I fall asleep. At midnight, she called, and that woke me up and I drove home, about 1/2 mile. She was watching her shows on Netflix, and I took a shower and came downstairs. I got on my PC and re-newed my subscription for archives on MB. We didn't talk much, and around 1:00 AM she got up and went to bed. As I completed my MB catch up, I went to bed around 1:30 AM. Up at 5:00 AM. The disrespect I can think of might have been, (1) I texted her saying I let the dog out and was heading up to pull the rest of the bad carpet and pad, and tacks out. (Perhaps I should have asked her even though I knew her answer would be 'fine'.) (2) Then, falling asleep as I was heading home, was disrepectful. (Our 15 yr old is out of town this week at a church youth camp.) Thanks, Remark
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Yes, I'm working to brainstorm something that honors JD2D without me feeling like I neglected a father's obligation when it's Father's Day and the stars are aligned such that his kids and grandsons are all in town at the same time (a rare occurrence). Did she get a weekend doing activities she is passionate about with fireworks and banners for Mother's Day? If I recall right, you did almost NOTHING for Mother's Day for her, and what little you did was the day(s) after. After she step-mothered all of your children,and also bore one for you herself. Wow. Now here is this wonderful, special all-stars-aligned family occasion and you think you will just call it Father's Day and have a super-de-duper whoop up celebration honoring yourself. That's a pretty lopsided deal for her I'd say. No wonder she wants nothing to do with you right now.
Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.
Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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Remark, your obligation is to your wife. But what she's seeing is that you will either go with the children, or you will be surly and make her miserable if you don't.
Can you understand why this upsets her enough that she doesn't want you around?
The solution is to NOT go be with the children and to NOT be miserable about it in her presence. Your children are grown and do not need you. Your marriage is until death do you part. ALL care that you provide other people has to be subordinate to your wife.
I practice this with my children today and they are not even grown. I do not provide care for them that my wife is not enthusiastic about. If that means they go without for a bit, then that's what happens. They are quite happy and well-adjusted, and the main factor in that is that their parents have a happy marriage. Yes! So attractive when my husband does this.
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At midnight, she called, and that woke me up and I drove home, about 1/2 mile.
So she was reaching out for you at midnight, missing that you were not home.
She was watching her shows on Netflix,
had waited up for you
and I took a shower and came downstairs.
so you got home and did something all by yourself (I'm assuming there was no desire expressed to soon recapture the days when you might shower together or other such connecting comment)
I got on my PC and re-newed my subscription for archives on MB.
I continued to ignore her while she was waiting for me
We didn't talk much, and around 1:00 AM she got up and went to bed. As I completed my MB catch up, I went to bed around 1:30 AM.
so I continued to ignore her until she went to bed. No reciprocation of a reaching-out back to her; no affectionate gesture or word appears to have been extended. Your disrespect was you ignored her overture and ignored her.
Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.
Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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"It's not exclusionary from anyone's perspective except W, perhaps, and that is the issue. "
are you unclear about the meaning of the word "exclude," because you defined and then claim not to understand it.
IF everyone but your wife is involved, you are BY DEFINITION, excluding her.
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Proposed Apology:
"Dear JD2D,
I am so sorry my immediate reaction when the kids started asking "What to you want to do for Father's Day?" wasn't "let me check with JD2D." And, I certainly will not put them over you in terms of my priority. Please understand that.
To prevent such incidents in the future, I will always simply say "let me check with JD2D" in any and all such opportunities like this or life jackets, etc.
Once again you are assuming that your proposed phrasing will work for her. That leaves her in a position to have to disagree if she doesn't like it. Instead, ASK HER how she would feel about your proposed plan. Because the only way you will know what will feel comfortable for her is if you ask her. This:
Would it work for you if I said "Let me check with Day" or would there be another phrase which FEELS better for you? Like: "I'll have to get back with you on that."?
If you aren't comfortable around them, that is fine and I accept that. I truly value you and your opinions, your feelings, over theirs. Please, is there something we can brainstorm for Father's Day that you would be comfortable with and we could both do together, with or without them?
Would you want to just drop Jake off to see his siblings and nephews since they're in town and I'll do something different with you? They could do brunch or something.
You and I could go to the Botanical Gardens if you'd like or anything else you might like, or have brunch with your parents.
Or, you, Jake and I could do something like a bike ride and brunch along the trail. Would you, Jake and I like to go on a float trip?
Do any of these ideas strike you as fun alternatives?
Please help me do the POJA process with you on this.
Love always,
Remark"
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(Our 15 yr old is out of town this week at a church youth camp.)
Thanks,
Remark And you spent the night doing construction? Ouch.
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Why are you letting your kids distract you and us distract you from 5 evenings of opportunity with your wife?
Fear of rejection?
Get over it.
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