Sheba, I don't know where your wisdom comes from, but it really comes out in your posts. This weekend W and I had a really good conversation based on feelings rather than ideas. Unfortunately, she said she wanted to move out. It's based on the confusion you talked about as well as not being ready to make any decisions. I told her earnestly that I truly understood her reasoning and supported the decision. But other than that there was much love expressed on both sides all day Sunday.<P>I had been to a mortgage broker earlier in the week to discuss re-financing the house so she would have the equity money to get her own place. She needs to talk to her attorney to get his feelings on this action prior to the separation agreement. Yesterday at lunch, I asked if she had talked to him yet and she let me know she has an appointment this morning(Tuesday). I asked if there was any chance she'd change her mind and rather than the "NO" answer I truly expected, she said that she didn't know, that she didn't even know herself, that anything was possible. <P>Last night, she was asking me to help her try to think of all the questions she had for atty., and she commented that "I" was the one who wanted to know about the house re-fi. I reassured her that I preferred not to do that, but that it would give her the freedom to buy her own place if she wanted to. I think that my cooperation on this comforts her in that I would give her the freedom she wants, so maybe with the security of knowing she can have it, she might not need it.<P>Well, since your last reply to me, I have been pouring on the affection, smiles and cooperation even though it may be against my best interests and how I really feel. I think that it is having some effect. I still feel pessimistic because she can turn on a dime, but I am determined to keep this attitude until the bitter end. I don't want her to see me down in the dumps. I even smile and joke with her when discussing her upcoming(possibly) move!!!<P>I evidently learn slowly, Sheba, and just wanted you to know that you were right. Even if this doesn't work out, I have learned something valuable from you that I can take into the future. I still feel pessimistic as ever, but I'm starting to feel less bad about letting her go. She told me that even if she moved out, and possibly divorced, that she didn't consider "us" over and just wanted me to know that.<P>Her birthday is Monday and I'm going to treat it as if nothing has happened. The song lyrics I posted in "A song for some of us" really reflect what's in my heart. I plan on leaving a copy on the tape player Monday night with a note asking her to play it.<P>God bless you, Sheba and keep you well. You are a beacon of light for some of us lost in the tunnel. Keep beating me over the head when you think it's necessary.

Hi Heartpain -<P>I'm sorry that I took so long to reply here....was off the weekend and didn't see this till just now!!<P>I am so glad that you and your Wife talked the way that you did!! That's what rebuilding comes down to...as much honest, non-pressured talk as possible.<P>If anything I said helped you in anyway, then I feel good and somehow it helps in my own healing. Thanks for the compliments - you're making me blush.<P>Went back and scanned your previous post...never got back there before this one!! I'm sorry that I "Mommed" you!! LOL!!! I didn't mean to chastise...only point out her different and confused way of thinking....there is no logic to the illogical!!!<P>I will make an optimist of you yet!!!<P>I didn't realize the history of her indecisiveness and/or procrastinating.<P>This is a good reason for her to be seeing a counselor..I can't remember - is she? Might help her alot!!! She can't stay confused forever.....<P>Think you can possibly work that in with this moving out/apartment deal you are working on? Yes, she needs time and space to think and decide..but will she?<P>With a once a week reality check with a counselor (and please let it be a good one - check out my new thread...UGH!) you both will know that some things are being addressed and that the "ignore" or "avoid" syndrome is not occurring.<P>What do you think?<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba

Sheba --<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'm sorry that I "Mommed" you!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>OK, first of all, no apologies are required. Even though your advice was sobering, your style of reply made me chuckle and really got thru my thick head.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I will make an optimist of you yet!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This would match the accomplishment of landing a man on the moon!!!<P>As far as the procrastinating, over the years I, too, was guilty also to an extent of putting things off, though not nearly to the extent she did. I used to joke that she and I were the president and vice-president of Procrastinators, International.<P>I guess I don't understand what you meant by this: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Think you can possibly work that in with this moving out/apartment deal you are working on?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>We have both been in individual counseling since April. The joint counseling started in September and we are using her personal therapist. Initially, she said that she wouldn't consider anyone else, so I acquiesced.<P>As far as needing time and space, there are two things that make me doubt the truth of her statements. One, during the four months this summer that we lived apart, she made absolutely <B>no</B> progress on her issues or ours. Her state of mind was completely unchanged from before the separation. She is working too hard and too many hours and it is difficult for her to want to tackle tough issues in her mind.<P>Second, OM has just been put on a "hold" status while she decides what to do. He is still there lurking in the shadows and being W's confidant at work. There is nothing I can do about this. Neither he nor she wants him completely out of the picture. She still considers him her closest friend.<P>I could be infinitely more comfortable about her moving out for a while if item number two didn't exist and I have told her this(to no response). She just tries to assure me that re-connecting(figuratively and literally) with OM is not in anyway her intention by moving out.<P>Anyway, things <B>are</B> a little better now, with no small thanks to your advice to me. I don't feel real good about where I believe this will all end up, but there is a small amount of hope.<P>And, now, lastly <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If anything I said helped you in anyway<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...<BR>You have helped me more than you will ever really know. AND, you have helped everyone you respond to. I just don't know why life has taken someone who has their head screwed on so straight and has such wisdom and affection to those around and dealt you the cards you hold. You don't deserve it....<P>