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It doesn't have to be in anger to be a fight.
You are fighting. You have been since you got here, and still are.
This is how you can do the program: stop fighting with him. You haven't stopped as of yet, and you continue to be disrespectful.
If what he said is a deal breaker for you, file for divorce. They are easy to get. This is not helpful. What is the difference between this vs. if he was refusing to give up his EA partner? It's a very big difference, and to compare the two is an insult to any betrayed spouse. I AM a betrayed spouse. I find this MUCH more painful than the secretive affair he had with a woman he previously had sex with. At least then I didn't have to deal with his self-righteous condemnation of me for not going along with it.
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So what things are you willing to let him do to fill your love bank? Are you willing to set a schedule like Sugar suggested? An answer to this would help him greatly. If you are not willing to answer it, then I'm not sure what you want him to do. You cannot refuse to spend time with him then be upset when he finds something else to do. Do you not remember my post regarding the night he took me out for Mother's Day? The night was riddled with LBs. This past week when I met with him and my step-son was the same. I can't imagine he's going to be better "behaved" if we're alone when no one is watching or helping to entertain him. What *I* want is for him to stop the LBs. If I understand Dr. Harley correctly, there's no point trying to make deposits as long as they're being overridden with LBs, so what are you looking for?
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Oh, and also, I would be willing to "let" him do the 110+ pages of things suggested to him on his thread -- the things that he can't remember.
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And now I'm angry at myself again because once again, I'm here all day until 11:00pm posting on the forum trying to make sense of this while Remark hasn't engaged since early this morning. And he no longer has the excuse of no internet access.
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Are you willing to let him date you on a regular basis? Are you willing to end your own lovebusters?
If not, and this current fight is too much of a deal breaker for you, then file for divorce. Is that what you are wanting to do?
If you don't want to divorce him, then you need to do your part and stop your own lovebusters. You have a very big problem with disrespect.
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Remark is not the only one who has failed to follow the program. When are you going to do your part?
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Remark is GOING to make mistakes on the path of recovery. When you continue to respond with lovebusters, that doesn't give him a lot of hope for recovery. When are you going to do your part?
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That's because you don't want to do the program.
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So far, the only message you have sent him is that this marriage is over and that there is no point in trying.
Would you like to change that?
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Marriage Builders has a plan that a wife can follow to try to get her husband to change. But you haven't followed it, so why are you expecting him to change?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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So what things are you willing to let him do to fill your love bank? Are you willing to set a schedule like Sugar suggested?
Would you consider the online program now? This way is not going to work. I told him today that I would talk to a coach, but it's unlikely we'll get past the first week or so. Doing the PoJA makes him angry. He has been willing to do the online program with coaching. So you are saying that you have agreed to sign up? Even though you feel hopeless?
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If you did in fact agree to do a MB coaching call, I would recommend that you prepare a concise written statement of your position about the family issue and your complaint about Remark not being willing and/or being resentful of your feelings so that you save time for coaching on the call with Steve.
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I would WANT Remark to say this to me. I would want to know that things were that dangerously precarious, that people were actually knocking on his door with no instigation on his part, and that he was struggling with a reason to resist, so I could do something about it and give him a reason. If I were him, claiming to want to save the marriage, I wouldn't advise him not to tell me because I've got a condo to focus on right now.
Actually, I'm fine with him saying what he said. What is wrong with honesty? There was no name-calling or angry outbursts, just honest and open sharing. I WOULD RATHER KNOW. But you aren't him are you? PoJA is not 'I've decided this is reasonable because it's how I would feel in your shoes' PoJA is about not subjecting your spouse to things that would make them unhappy. Being lectured for a long time over his shortcomings makes him unhappy and demotivated to try. Even if he were the only person in the world to think so, you should respect that and deliver complaints more swiftly and cheerfully. But he isn't. Long relationship talks are discouraged in MB because they aren't enjoyable to hardly anybody. Particularly men. Also, they are doomed to failure. If you are talking a lot it's because you believe your perspective is the wisest and best. It also means you don't trust your spouse to go away and think about it, you need instant reassurance on the spot. Keeping him there reluctantly until he hears and agrees with your perspective is a fight, because it's a selfish demand. He's being pretty irritating but you aren't helping matters. You would have gotten your point over far more clearly if you had talked less and not asked for responses. You could have said you were unhappy with his attentiveness level and would appreciate his posting for advice. End of. No need to twist his arm until he cries uncle. As for the potential A, you did right to inform him of an advance and of any temptation but I truly hope you reassured him you had cut off all avenues of contact regardless of what he does with your marriage? ANYTHING less is a threat and a selfish demand. It's not his neglect that will cause an affair, but your boundaries.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Quick reference.... X2.
It's not the family who are the problem, it's the obsession with making them more important. If R had always put his wife first, she would likely have a close relationship with them.
The carpet thing is a stunning example. With marriage on life support, he goes to his son for distraction and comfort and to forget his wife.
The family is Nero's fiddle. He plays with them while Home burns.
That's why you have to exclude them - not because of JD2Ds attitude towards them - but yours. Thank you, Indie. Succinct, to the point, and 100% my thoughts exactly.
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If you did in fact agree to do a MB coaching call, I would recommend that you prepare a concise written statement of your position about the family issue and your complaint about Remark not being willing and/or being resentful of your feelings so that you save time for coaching on the call with Steve. I think the coaching call (which I agreed to do) would be better than the online program. I believe the family issue IS going to be the hill that Remark dies on. He simply does not agree.
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I would WANT Remark to say this to me. I would want to know that things were that dangerously precarious, that people were actually knocking on his door with no instigation on his part, and that he was struggling with a reason to resist, so I could do something about it and give him a reason. If I were him, claiming to want to save the marriage, I wouldn't advise him not to tell me because I've got a condo to focus on right now.
Actually, I'm fine with him saying what he said. What is wrong with honesty? There was no name-calling or angry outbursts, just honest and open sharing. I WOULD RATHER KNOW. But you aren't him are you? PoJA is not 'I've decided this is reasonable because it's how I would feel in your shoes' PoJA is about not subjecting your spouse to things that would make them unhappy. Being lectured for a long time over his shortcomings makes him unhappy and demotivated to try. Even if he were the only person in the world to think so, you should respect that and deliver complaints more swiftly and cheerfully. But he isn't. Long relationship talks are discouraged in MB because they aren't enjoyable to hardly anybody. Particularly men. Also, they are doomed to failure. If you are talking a lot it's because you believe your perspective is the wisest and best. I agree with you, but REMARK didn't tell me that sharing that information with him was an LB for him. You can only do what you know until you know differently. I'll ask Remark if he'd like me to refrain from sharing that information with him in the future. BTW, I used to do what you suggested, delivered my complaints short and sweet, even made a joke out of it when I said it. Do you get the impression that Remark responds to subtlety? It also means you don't trust your spouse to go away and think about it, you need instant reassurance on the spot. Keeping him there reluctantly until he hears and agrees with your perspective is a fight, because it's a selfish demand. I absolutely, positively do not trust him to go away and think about it. He doesn't. He often forgets the point/question during the three minutes I'm waiting for him to "formulate a response." He's being pretty irritating but you aren't helping matters. You would have gotten your point over far more clearly if you had talked less and not asked for responses. You could have said you were unhappy with his attentiveness level and would appreciate his posting for advice. End of. No need to twist his arm until he cries uncle. I did do this on Friday with my complaint that he comes into my house now and leaves it in disarray. I mentioned the table setting as an example. I didn't itemize the mess he left in the basement when he took the tv off the wall, or the doors to the house left wide open such that the air conditioning had left the building and the house felt like a sauna. Just short and sweet. In response, I feel like he mocked my complaint when he referenced it on his thread ("I committed an LB of leaving a place mat out of place on her kitchen table. She mentioned that, (an LB)") again trying to point out what an unreasonable cow I am. As for the potential A, you did right to inform him of an advance and of any temptation but I truly hope you reassured him you had cut off all avenues of contact regardless of what he does with your marriage?
ANYTHING less is a threat and a selfish demand.
It's not his neglect that will cause an affair, but your boundaries. Agreed. Boundaries take personal resolve and commitment, which admittedly mine are weakening terribly. I was expressing my own personal fear. I've considered D'ing for that reason alone, and it's not off the table.
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Remark is not the only one who has failed to follow the program. When are you going to do your part? When he demonstrates that he is capable of doing his part. I've done plan A numerous times. It doesn't change anything with him. He needs to show me that he's capable. It's unfortunate he didn't take the opportunity to do his part when it would have been easier for him. Like it's easier to lose 10 pounds than 50? But this is where we are.
Last edited by JustDaytoDay; 06/29/15 08:13 PM.
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Quick question. Are posters "fighting" with Remark on his thread?
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Remark is not the only one who has failed to follow the program. When are you going to do your part? When he demonstrates that he is capable of doing his part. The program doesn't work that way. We're not talking Plan A here. We're talking the basics of not abusing your spouse. When your spouse breaks a rule, that doesn't give you permission to also break rules. If you are not willing to stop the disrespectful judgements, then Remark really has no reason to continue in this marriage with you.
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I looked through the recent posts, what disrespectful judgment(s) are you talking about?
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