OK, same question. How do I communicate the concept of IB to them and the fact that i was wrong to do it without 'pitting them against JD2D?

Make it about your actions, the things you did. Don't make about her thoughts or feels. Your disrespect, your lack of conideration.

By never letting them know she's the reason you're not going to do something. Quit showing them the seam between the two of you, when you are supposed to be ONE. That's a horrible violation, IMO.

Your kids are grown and will need to figure a lot of this out for themselves. Rather than violating your wife in order to teach them, just lead by example. When someone asks you something, you say "let me get back to you on that." Don't tell them that the reason you can't answer yet ie because you need to talk to your wife.

Mmmm. I agree. You're just starting to think in terms of 'If JD2D doesn't like it then I don't do it' but when you communicate this to others it really sounds like 'JD2D won't let me' so there is a real need for privacy there.

You need to absorb the wisdom of deciding that PoJA is the best option for YOU and take ownership of that decision. So you don't say JD2D thinks it's a bad idea, you need to say *you* think it is.

I don't think it's a good idea to do that. A more fun thing to do would be..(insert PoJAd decision).

If there's no PoJA decision tell them you'll get back to them.

Excellent! Thanks, Apples
I need to remember that!!!

Markos,

Good advice. I understand. "Let me get back to you" is subtly so much better, than "let me talk with JD2D"!!

Thanks,
Remark

Thanks, Indie,

Believe me, I believe in PoJA. Internalizing it and employing it with "Let me get back with you" is so much better than my efforts PoJA to date.

Thanks,
Remark

Remark, I'm a little concerned about all the talk about teaching your children. Don't teach them at your wife's expense. Don't tell them anything they might be judgmental toward your wife about. And if they do say something judgmental about her, defend her.

Your children are grown and can figure out their own marriages by themselves.

Markos,
I agree with you re: adult children; impact. I've learned much ion recent posts of how I should respond with"let me get to you" rather than "let ask JD2D" which makes the ogre more often than not.

Thanks for your wise counsel.
Remark

Remark,

I thought about you this weekend, and your difficult situation. I hope that this weekend contributed in some way, a pebble tossed in the stream building towards a bridge.

I do really hope and pray that your separation is the beginning of a new relationship with your wife.

Once the day-to-day dings are removed and all of your time is pleasant UA/dating, it is my hope that the two of you are able to restore your love.

After my xH refused to move out to save our marriage, my eyes were opened to "if he were out", then x, y and z LBs wouldn't have happened that day, further confirming my hopeless future with him. Once he moved out, it was easy to put those incidental LBs out of my mind because they weren't happening anymore.

As posters have pointed out on my thread in the dating section, now that we are separated I am at a high risk of building my regard back for him, in the absence of continued LBs on his part.

My xH was not a very nice man - and it didn't really bother him that he wasn't. I can swear on a STACK of Bibles that I will never fall in love with him again [a figure of speech of course; we are not actually permitted by the Bible to do this].

However, he has been nice and we have shared cordial family times and I can say that IF I WAS TRYING TO BE, I could be be back in love with him again, given the distance from the daily LBs. This is after 18 months of separation, and with him being pretty mean at times during the separation even.

[I am taking steps of a better Plan B to prevent this from ever happening, and the posters on my thread have been kind to forsee/warn me about this. In my case, my xH had NO desire to try MB or change his behavior; you do!]

The separation isn't the trauma that it first seems to be. It's a good thing. Embrace it and use it to rebuild your marriage.

All of the best to you, Remark.

Sunnytimes.

Thanks for your prayers, Sunny.

I pray the same for JD2D and me. And, I hope I wasn't as bad to JD2D as your ex was to you, though I know I made a million mistakes.

I will pray for you and yours as well.

Thanks and blessings,
Remark

Remark,

just reminding you that you were going to post about your progress every day.
What did you do to make your wife fall back in love with you in the last 2 days?

happyhart,

OK, I will get back to that. Yesterday, I got an internet connection!!!! So, until yesterday, I was "out of commission" as far as internet connectivity and posting, except from work, where I try to limit to during lunch hour.

Last week, I took a few days off from work as well, to work with my son who is in town from Australia. He offered and I took him up on working on replacing the nasty carpet on the floor of my bathrooms with tile. (It only had carpet, (no tile or linoleum under the carpet).

Anyway, to your question, each day, I picked up the younger son, after school and fed him, etc. This is not unusual, but I went out of my way to be considerate to JD2D in terms of letting the dog out, or putting the trash out.

As my two sons and I had dinner, Monday night, I stopped to let the dog out or something and she just arrived home from work. She mentioned desiring to go to dinner with sons and me as we concluded work and got something to eat. We shut down around 8:30 PM and were going to get something to eat. I mentioned to the boys that she wanted to eat with us, so as we left not knowing where we were going, we'd have to call her as we decided where to eat. The oldest son drove and we didn't know where we were going to eat. Ultimately, we ate at his favorite place to eat here in the states, Qdoba, but as we got there I forgot to call JD2D. She was hurt, and I feel bad about that.

Tuesday, we did invite her to eat and, in fact the four of us ate at her favorite place to eat.

Friday evening, we stopped in to get something and to borrow her internet connection to check e-mail and Craigslist as I needed a cheap TV stand. I committed an LB of leaving a place mat out of place on her kitchen table. She mentioned that, (an LB)

Then yesterday, I stopped by to check on her and our youngest son as he had a place to be and be picked up from. She was cutting the grass, apparently, and didn't hear her phone around 2:00 PM as the cable TV company finally completed setting up my internet connection. She asked if I could stay and talk for 10 minutes. I did, and that talk went on until about 8:00 PM. So, between the cable company and that 10 minute talk, I got nothing done in terms of the bathroom floors, where I still don't have a working toilet ( which disappoints me, but is not the end of the world. ) I am taking time now, to catch up with MB, and then I'll get back on the bathrooms today, so that by the end of today, I hope to have a working toilet.

The three things we talked about yesterday were (1) how she perceives I'm not working on us, but focusing on fixing up this condo I'm in, (2) my family and (3) dating, she wants to as she feels I am not pursuing her.

(1) She feels I am not doing the things the forum tells me. I have a notebook, for example, but I don't remember to keep it with me and I don't recall to recap each day the things I've done positively and negatively (LB's and positive things.) OK, I am focused on bathrooms for the moment. And, I will get back on that as soon as I have a working toilet.

(2) She doesn't care to see my family or travel 5-6 hours to their hometown ever again. Enough on that as we've labored that enough.

(3) This too, speaks for itself.

We have so many hurdles where I am unacceptable to her and her position is untenable to me long-term, I am feeling very discouraged at this point.

Thanks,
Remark

Dude, you ignored your wife for a week and then told her to have an affair!?!
That was dumb!

Your post sounds like you are talking about an annoying maiden aunt, not a wife you are desperately trying to have fall in love with you.

Do you want to be married or not.
If you do, you are going to HAVE TO START PUTTING YOUR WIFE FIRST. You cannot afford to forget her.

Your actions demonstrate zero care for your wife.

ZERO.

If bathroom carpet is more important than your wife, why should she remain married to you
If you DON'T CARE if she has an affair, why should she remain married to you?

Apples,

I agree. It didn't quite go down like that though. She told me of some guy pursuing her she met at some meet up group, when I've begged for UA and "dates" for years now.

So, consider that as part of the context, please.

Thanks, Remark

Yes, I know. It's a struggle to put her first when time with her is not pleasant anymore. She seems so confrontational. I am frustrated too. I don't know how to make her more secure.

Thanks, Remark

Apples,

I agree. I struggle to enjoy being around her as she is so confrontational unless a third party is present. I am just as frustrated and lonely as she is. I am only part of the problem.

Thanks,
Remark