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#2859120 06/30/15 10:33 AM
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My story...
My husband and I have been married for 26 years. We have two sons 23 and 21 yrs Our oldest lives across country and our youngest is still home. My husband came to me a few days ago and revealed he had an affair for two years that ended 20 years ago. He said he ended the affair; at that time we moved to another city, as my husband took a job transfer. He said part of the reason was to start over and get away from what he had done. I asked him why he didn't tell me about the affair back then and he said he didn't want to break up the family and our children were so young. He also wanted to make sure we were looked after physically and allow me to be a stay at home mom. So this continued for the next 20 years and now our youngest son is on the verge of leaving home.

This revelation was enough for one day. He went to work yesterday, as he always does and I stayed home and contemplated my future. I am completely devastated... But this is nothing new, as I will explain...

Our marriage started out rocky. We dated long distance and had a lovely wedding. Three months into marriage, my husband told me he had to leave because he'd had an affiar that had started before we married. He told me the affair was over I was shocked, devastated! We separated, I moved back home in another city. He went on his merry way while I picked up the pieces. I was madly in love with him and missed him desparately. I decided to wait a year before considering divorce. I didn't hear from him and then coinincidently, about a year later, he came around to me, wanting to reconcile. He ended up moving to my city, with me, where we stayed and our two sons were born. Life seemd ok but not great; we fought alot; he worked and drank alot, while i stayed home with the babies. Unknown to me, he was unfaithful, having not just the one affair mentioned already, but a 'one night stand' and another affair. These women were all from his place of work.

He confessed to the other liasons yesterday, and has said he has nothing else to hide. He said he has been suicidal and almost took his life a few months ago, even writing a letter to me about everything. He didn't go through with it because he knew of the great pain it would cause me and his boys, and that he wants life, no matter how hard it will be.

He says he had told me about all the affairs but I don't know if I can or should, believe him. I asked if I could look at his cell phone and he said yes, he has nothing to hide. He says he has been 'faithful' for the last 20 years but for me, his keeping these secrets for so long, I almost feel more betrayed with this revelation than with all the affairs. We are living together in the family home. He had said he would move out if I wanted him to, but I am in such shock and do not want any change for now. Plus our son who lives with us doesn't have a clue of whats going on and I don't want him to know what is happening, just yet.

Strange as it seems, I love my husband. He has not expressed how he feels about me, but he has indicated he wants to look after me financially and that the family home is mine to live in. He is worried about our sons and his parents. For all the trauma this confession is causing, he knew he had to tell me, in order for the healing for him and me to begin. We are both numb, in shock.

I read most of the basic information from the website yesterday and tried to use some of the advice in dealing with my husband in our conversations yesterday. I even hugged him for the first time in months and before we went to sleep, he thanked me for listening. Maybe there is hope for us!?

I have left out many details, but can provide more information, whatever will help. Any and all advice is appreciated.


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Bird,

Do you know who these OW are and have their husbands been told?

You may also want to get a polygraph for your WH. This will help you eliminate the possibility there have been other affairs.

Gamma

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I only know the names of the OWs and they were co workers of my WH. I do not know if they were married. Why would I need this information? The comment about the polygraph scares me; are you saying that I should assume my husband is lieing about not having anymore affairs in the last 20 years?


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Originally Posted By: bird68
I only know the names of the OWs and they were co workers of my WH. I do not know if they were married. Why would I need this information? The comment about the polygraph scares me; are you saying that I should assume my husband is lieing about not having anymore affairs in the last 20 years?



Yes, of course you should assume he is lying. He can have affairs multiple times, including while you were pregnant and giving birth, and lie to your face for 20 years... it would be naive to think he is suddenly full of honesty.

You have a serial cheater with decades of liar entitlement. If you want to recover, the bar has to set so high it's practically in space. Are you willing to expect that?

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Bird,

If your WH is serious about his honesty he will gladly take the polygraph. If you don't know if these OW were married or not then you don't have the basic facts either.

Your WH should also make his apologies to the BHs of these OW.

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Thanks for the replies...

Alis, how high do I set the bar? I don't know where to start...

Gamma, you are saying my WH should contact these people from 20-25 years ago and tell them he is sorry? I am so confused. Where on MB can I find the step by step on how to where to go now that my WH has confessed? I didn't think it was healthy to ask for details, that it wouldn't benefit or help our marital crisis, but I am new at this and need all the help I can get


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Originally Posted By: bird68
Thanks for the replies...

Alis, how high do I set the bar? I don't know where to start...

Gamma, you are saying my WH should contact these people from 20-25 years ago and tell them he is sorry? I am so confused. Where on MB can I find the step by step on how to where to go now that my WH has confessed? I didn't think it was healthy to ask for details, that it wouldn't benefit or help our marital crisis, but I am new at this and need all the help I can get

bird,

Contacting these people from 20-25 years ago should not be done. It is not something that Dr harley, the founder of Marriage Builders, recommends. Doing so would be a distraction from the very serious problem facing you in your own marriage today, and for the future.

This is what Dr Harley recommends you to do:

Originally Posted By: Dr. Harley
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.

Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.


The first point, "The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse" means that your husband needs to give you the identities of all the women involved. If he doesn't, you cannot know whether he is still in contact with them or not. For all you know, one or more might still be working with him.

The third point, "The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse" isn't necessary with affairs that ended 20 years ago - if indeed you can be sure that they all ended, and there has been no recent contact.

What you will be doing, by trying to contact the husbands of these women from 20 years ago, is focusing your attention on the long dead affairs - in a sense, bringing something back to life that died a long time ago. What you really need to focus on is your marriage, and on overcoming the unhappiness that these revelations have brought, and building an entirely new marriage from the failed marriage that you have long lived with.

Asking your husband to take a polygraph is a good idea, because you will never know if he is telling you the whole truth about these women's identities, and about the affairs being long dead, without one. Focusing on their marriages, though, is focusing on the wrong thing. It is pointless and won't help your marriage one iota.


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Thank you SugerCane, I appreciate your comments

I totally never thought about your point that these women could have followed him to our current city. That said, my husband has told me the names of two women he had affairs with 20 years ago when we lived in another city plus the name of a woman who 'tempted' him( but he says they did not have affair) in the current city we live in. I will need to contact the 3rd woman and confirm the story. He also had a ONS 20+ years and didn't give her name,but I need to get her info as well.

Yeah, my life is a mess, what can I say?

I have read the EP and many of the requirements I already intuitivelly want to do follow but some I don't know if I have the energy. But I know I need to do these things to keep my sanity and start the recovery, whether we stay married or not. At this point, I don't know if my husband wants to work on marriage. He is planning to confess his infidelity to our clergy and next, tell our 2nd son (living at home). Then next will be his parents and our 1st son.

We will be talking again tonite once he is home from work and hopefully, make some progress.


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Also, H doesn't know I am seeking advice on a forum. I want to show him what I'm doing, as part of being honest with him, but am not sure if it would help. What should I do?


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Originally Posted By: bird68
Also, H doesn't know I am seeking advice on a forum. I want to show him what I'm doing, as part of being honest with him, but am not sure if it would help. What should I do?

Don't tell him ANYTHING about this place. We will need to talk to you about spying on him, and other actions that if he reads about them (even on other people's threads), will ruin their effectiveness.

You don't know that he is being honest with you yet, and there are red flags that he might even be planning to leave the marriage. He is not your friend yet. Do not let him know about this forum at all.


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This suicide business from a few months ago is deeply troubling. Most men who had a series of affairs many years ago do not feel like taking their lives over them, years later. His other statements signify depression, also.

He needs to see a doctor. Can you get him to go?


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SugarCane, H told me he feels almost schizophrenic, like he has two personalities, questioning out loud how he's been able to live this lie for 20 years. H feels he has dark memories from his childhood, of something terrible happening ie abuse He is very scared but he wants to live and deal with the consequences. I told him today he needs personal counselling and he agreed. I need to look after myself. I also told H I need personal counselling and possibly joint counselling, to see what to do with the marriage. He agreed to these also. I am thinking of getting legal separation to protect and secure what little assets our marriage has. H said Our home is mine to live in. I am also unsure if he should stay in the marital home or leave. He has no where to go and in such a fragile place.


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bird68,

Your husband doesn't need counseling and your marriage doesn't need counseling.
Your focus should be on following Dr. Harley's plan and checklist which SugarCane posted to you.
It's very difficult to live a secret second life and I suspect your husband has had more affairs than what he confessed to you.
What prompted his confession? Did he get caught in an affair and is he worried someone will be contacting you?

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Originally Posted By: bird68
SugarCane, H told me he feels almost schizophrenic, like he has two personalities, questioning out loud how he's been able to live this lie for 20 years. H feels he has dark memories from his childhood, of something terrible happening ie abuse He is very scared but he wants to live and deal with the consequences. I told him today he needs personal counselling and he agreed. I need to look after myself. I also told H I need personal counselling and possibly joint counselling, to see what to do with the marriage. He agreed to these also. I am thinking of getting legal separation to protect and secure what little assets our marriage has. H said Our home is mine to live in. I am also unsure if he should stay in the marital home or leave. He has no where to go and in such a fragile place.


Hi bird, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. i want to assure you that you can save this and end up with a fantastic, affair proof marriage if you will follow this program. If you are willing to strictly follow this program, instead of your own plan, you have a great chance of having what we have.

First off, I would put aside all the counseling. Counseling is a distraction at a time that your marriage is on life support. All of your energy and actions should be devoted to saving your marriage now. Counselors have no earthly ideas how to save marriages so they will just be a needless distraction.

I would also strongly urge you not to separate right now. You can't save a marriage if you are not together.

I would start by scheduling a polygraph. It is critical that you get all of the information about his affairs and I doubt he has told you everything. You need the full truth in order to recover. You also need to all the facts so you will know who to keep out of your lives. The best way to get the truth is to first schedule the test. Two days before the test, hand him a list of questions. The questions should be about facts about his affairs, names, occurrences, places, dates, etc. From his answers, you can help the tester determine the appropriate 3 questions.

The next steps are described in this article by Dr Bill Harley,, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders:

Quote:
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be
your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.

Best wishes,

Willard F. Harley, Jr.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Sugarcane, thank you so much! At first I didn't want to look at the list but something made me read it and then I have started the process by looking through the last two months of WH cell phine records. I found a program online that searchs phone numbers and signed uo and just this morning The program found the number of WH first love from 30 years ago. I immediately called WH and had to grag it out and he finally confessed that he called her and met with her in a public place to find out if she had any feelings for him. She said no and that he needed to move on. Then WH told me she texted him to wish him well. I asked why I had not seen her number on his cellphone and he told me he had erased the texts!

I told WH that in order for us to move on in our relationship, even if we divorce, that I need complete transparency and honesty. I asked WH if he would ever contact her in the future and he said 'I don't know' and then the discussion got
heated with both of us accusing each other of 'have truths' and then both of us agreeing wehave kept secrets from each other over the years and how hurtful this has been.

I then asked if he would take a polygraph and he said no, not a chance.
WH had to go as he was at work but I said we would need to continue talking later.

Should My next step be to contact the ex girlfriend? What else should I be doing at this point?


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Originally Posted By: bird68
Sugarcane, thank you so much! At first I didn't want to look at the list but something made me read it and then I have started the process by looking through the last two months of WH cell phine records. I found a program online that searchs phone numbers and signed uo and just this morning The program found the number of WH first love from 30 years ago. I immediately called WH and had to grag it out and he finally confessed that he called her and met with her in a public place to find out if she had any feelings for him. She said no and that he needed to move on. Then WH told me she texted him to wish him well. I asked why I had not seen her number on his cellphone and he told me he had erased the texts!

I told WH that in order for us to move on in our relationship, even if we divorce, that I need complete transparency and honesty. I asked WH if he would ever contact her in the future and he said 'I don't know' and then the discussion got
heated with both of us accusing each other of 'have truths' and then both of us agreeing wehave kept secrets from each other over the years and how hurtful this has been.

I then asked if he would take a polygraph and he said no, not a chance.
WH had to go as he was at work but I said we would need to continue talking later.

Should My next step be to contact the ex girlfriend? What else should I be doing at this point?

bird, when did he initiate this contact with the ex? Was this recent? Do you realise that when he says "he called her and met with her in a public place to find out if she had any feelings for him", what he means is that he called and asked her to meet him in a bar, and tried to find out if they could have an affair? And do you realise that by agreeing to meet him at all, even before he asked this question, she must have been open to the idea of an affair?

If your boyfriend from 30 years ago called and begged you meet him, however public the place, wouldn't you know what he wanted to ask you, and would you go? Why would anyone go to a meeting like that, and then say no to the proposition? You need to count on the fact that she did not say no. She went to that meeting because she was as interested as he was, and something happened there. She did NOT say no.

I would not do the following right away, because I think it will tip off your H, and he will cover his tracks with any other women - but do it soon.

I would contact the ex without telling him, but be prepared for the fact that he has probably already contacted her and begged her to back up his story. Be prepared also that if they went to a hotel, or if they later continued their affair, she will already be in defiant mode and will laugh in your face.

Don't expect this woman to help you, but if you have the guts for it, ring her and ask her what happened. Don't, whatever you do, threaten to tell her husband that she met up with yours, but do a search and find out who she is married to, and tell him - later. How dare she meet your husband, even if it was to say no!!

All that is for later, however. For now, your husband has just informed you that he deleted texts - and you can bet that there are a lot more, with other women - and he refuses to take a polygraph.

He is a serial cheat who cheated quite recently (with this ex, however far that went - it was an attempt to hook up), and who refuses to give you the transparency which is your only hope of recovering this marriage.

You need to prepare to separate. I'm going to leave it to others to walk you through those steps, as I cannot post any more now - but you need to separate. You are not safe from him, and he is preparing actively to cheat again. I'm so sorry.


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Sugarcane, in answer to your question, I requested WH see a doctor for STDs as well as he has physical symptoms that are very troubling. He was agreeable. He also said he was open to personal counselling, particularly for his childhood issues, as well as marital counselling, but I have my doubts if he will go forward with it, at least not in the very near future. Right now his concern (and mine) is to reveal our marital crisis to family and then our clergy. WH told our DS21, who lives at home, about his affairs etc. last night and now he has to tell our DS23 tonite. I confided in close friends of ours yesterday morn about the situation and I have their support, whatever happens.


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Jedi Knight, I first read your questions yesterday and didn't think much of them. But as the day wore on, my gut feeling started to nag me. And thats when I purchasd the cell phone ID program and started searching his records. As I mentiond in another post, I found the number of WH first love and just now confronted WH with the information.


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