Hello everyone,

This is my first time posting, so I know I won't be able to explain everything in one go, but I'll give it a try.

Last night, my husband and I had our first meaningful discussion in more than a month. We've been having problems for years, but it's all come to a crisis point. He feels his love for me is gone, I have damaged our marriage beyond repair, and all that remains now is to keep from hurting the children.

But there are complicating factors. He is building us a house, and neither of us wants that dream to end. I don't want the house so much, as not to break our 4 yo son's heart, who has talked of nothing but the house we are going to have since the whole process started. What I would like is to finish this major project, and try to repair our marriage. What H wants is to build it, have the children and me live there, and he live somewhere else, because it's gotten to the point where he doesn't want to live in the same house with me anymore.

How did it get to this point? Well, according to what he told me last night, he feels I haven't loved him since about 4 months before our daughter was born. That would be about two years ago. This was around the time we bought our land, and I remember feeling stressed out about undertaking a building project with a new baby in the family. It wasn't exactly what I wanted, but when I realized how much he wanted to do this and may never get another chance, I decided to support his decision.

But, somehow, whatever support I gave was not enough. It's been an extremely difficult process for him, and I never knew quite what to do or say to encourage him. In fact, we fought a lot, and while I thought I was not terrible to him, his memory of my behaviour is much different. He said I took every opportunity to "throw rocks at him" on his few precious days off. He said many other things about his impressions of me along these lines.

Looking back, I could see more clearly about how my behaviour hurt him, and I wish I had known about MB then. But what I was feeling at the time was mainly tired and frustrated. Our children are beautiful, healthy and normal, but I have such a hard time keeping up with the demands of child and house care. I feel so woefully inadequate in these. And he criticized me a lot, more so when he was under stress. This is what provoked many arguments.

He may have been forgiving of all this, but for one major mistake I made last fall. I took the children and went to stay with my parents for a few days, after we'd had a terrible argument. I did this in order to preserve my mental health, and so the children wouldn't see their parents being terrible to each other. But I failed to realise how much this would hurt him, to be deprived of his children. He told me to put myself in his place.

Even that may have been something he could have recovered from, but he tells me it was followed by months of neglect on my part. I had never meant to neglect him. Once again, I was preoccupied by looking after the family and, yes, feeling my needs were unfulfilled too.

What really gets to him is that I forget or neglect to do some obvious thing that would make a difference to him. The other day, it was building a fire for him in the wood stove, so he could warm up after spending a long day out in the rain at the building site. Or not providing him with a good enough meal. There are many examples such as these, and try as I will, I keep making these mistakes, and I don't know how to change. I just seem too spacey, too preoccupied with this and that. And that feels like neglect and lack of love to him.

And now, he does not love me anymore, and feels his love cannot be restored.

I read in some of Dr Harley's Q & A columns about saving a marriage from one side, but that it is extremely difficult when the spouse's love is gone. He also said he has different advice for women than men, but I can't find his advice for women in this regard.

This has been very long winded, but I hope it's enough info for you to help me figure out how to proceed. I don't want H to know about MB or that I am on this forum, because it will colour his judgement of all I do or say to him, and he will be very upset that I've talked of our personal life on a public forum.

I don't want to leave with the children again. He seems to be able to live with me for the sake of our family,y and to get the house built. He's not violent and is very loving to the children. We have stopped the arguing, and as I said at the beginning of this post, we had a discussion last night that felt like the kind I think we should be having. Some of the things he said made me think of Dr Harley's advice, and I felt I heard and understood my husband more than I have for years. All this gives me hope. The guilt I feel is hard to cope with, and I find it clouds my thinking. I just need some advice on how to proceed.

Thanks, if you've managed to read this far. I've been needing to get this off my chest, and hope I won't regret spilling my guts online!

It does not sound as if the marriage is unrepairable. It does not even sound as you have been a less than mediocre wife. You can learn on this site to have a better marriage, because most of us are not ideal spouses naturally.

From what you tell he will have some major cleaning up to do at his side of the street to have a better marriage.
How long have you been married and how long have you been together?

What is concerning though, is that your husband is trying to throw in the towel, where it would be much more logical and sensible to stay with you. Has he indicated that he still loves you, but is not "in love" anymore?

His lack of wanting to repair the marriage because of the children and him not wanting to live in the house he is buiding for you are major red flags. It may be that he has fallen in love with someone else during the hassles of dealing with very young children at home. You should quietly do some snooping in his cell phone (bill), but don't ask him. If something is going on, he may not tell you the truth and will go in stealth mode. Please protect your family by getting the info first, if there is another woman. Dr. Harley states, that relatively many affairs develop after pregnancy and childbirth.

Good hunting,

Happyheart

Thanks, HappyHeart. It's good to feel there is reason to hope.

After reading a few other threads in this forum, I became concerned and did some quiet snooping. Naturally, I found nothing, but it would be pretty easy for him to delete texts or phone numbers. He's not overly protective of his cell phone, so I pick it up and have a look quite frequently. We don't have internet at home; he does his emailing at the library. I've kept mental track of his whereabouts during the day, and if he is having an affair, he's not spending much time with the o.w. He's home every evening, and never goes out, except to take care of business during the day. I could say he's not the type to have an affair, but how many times has that been said by others here, only to find out otherwise? If he's ever vulnerable to temptation, this would be such a time.

On the other hand... he has a strong sense of loyalty and responsibility towards his family. Some of the things he said yesterday left me with the sense that he's aware of how destructive an affair would be. But I don't know for sure. I cannot afford a p.I. I'm terrified that he would discover any spyware I place on his computer. His ohone is super old and prob won't support any new technology. Is there anything else I can do?

I was just talking with my mother about our problems, and it hasn't helped much. She doesn't like that he's laying all the blame squarely on my shoulders and doesn't think that's fair to me. I, frankly, feel the same way, but don't know how to communicate this with him. I'd love to overcome my own flaws and be the kind of person he'd be happy to be around, but have so much trouble doing the right thing when I'm feeling anxious, guilty, and in a panic to figure out what the "right" thing is. I feel like I'm set up for failure, and being blamed when everything falls apart.

I'm just in a low spot right now. Maybe a ray of hope will yet present itself.

I am not expert enough to give you advice on the marriage, but I want to say you sound like you may be depressed. Some things you said like the trouble keeping up with the demands and the spaciness, mirror things I've heard other mothers say who, it turned out, were suffering from depression.

I'm sure raising young children is challenging for everyone, but I am thinking of a couple women I know who were so overwhelmed and unhappy and not enjoying their family, and they spoke to doctors about hormones and depression and got on some hormones/anti-depressants and their entire lives turned around in a couple weeks.

So I want to encourage you to talk to your Dr. about that at the very least, and actually see a hormone specialist if at all possible.

I read these forums a lot and I am confident your marriage can be turned around if your husband is not having an affair. It's still possible even if he is. I'm sure some more of the forum experts will be along with additional advice for you soon.

Thank you, AnyWife. Your supportive words mean a lot to me.
I am feeling very depressed (or maybe just plain sad) right now, because things seem so bleak. When I am at home, I do feel isolated, frustrated, and overwhelmed, and exhausted, even though the physical surroundings are very nice. Also, I am an introvert, so my spaciness could be attributed to a state of deep thought I'm often in. But, of course, what am I thinking about? My marriage, and how to save it. I can see how this situation can lead to clinical depression, due to the constant stress and sense of hopelessness. But I often bounce back to a more normal state of happiness when I'm out of that environment and around other people. H has remarked on this, but he sees it as me saving all my bad moods for him, and giving everyone else my best.

Sorry for yammering on, but I find it soothing to talk about it.

Happy heart, I forgot to say, we have been married almost six years now, together for 7 or 8 years. But we've been friends much longer than that, some 12 years longer, in fact. Our children are 1 and 4.

Oh, and he has not used the ILYBNILWY line. He just says his love for me is gone, and I have destroyed it.

How much time are you spending together doing fun things and going out?
Where does he like to spend his time? (Work, library, etc?)

And would he be willing to follow a program that will make you fall madly in love with each other again`?

Ripples there are many red flags in your marriage indicating an affair. Have you looked at the cell phone bill to see if there are frequent calls or texts to a specific number? Even if he deleted things on his phone they would show up there.

Where else does he go during the day? You mentioned him emailing from the library. Who is he emailing and how frequently is he there? Could he have met someone while there or have an online relationship he is conducting there?

Many people think their spouse is not capable, or does not have the time for an affair. Dr Harley says that we are ALL capable of having an affair under the right conditions. And it does not take much time at all to have an affair either. Stay at home moms have affairs while they watch the kids, husbands hide affairs with coworkers when they seem to go just to work and back, so unless you are with him 24/7 he has the time for an affair.

Another suggestion for snooping is to place a VAR (voice activated recorder) in his car.

I'll be happy to discuss again within a few days. Time to head home. Will keep my eyes peeled and my ear to the ground. Hope to get to the bottom of this so we can begin to recover our marriage.
Please feel free to pitch in with any more comments or suggestions, esp on how to develop my communication skills. I want to learn how to let him know that guilt trips don't work, and we have to share responsibility for our problems and their solutions. But he tends to dominate the conversation, seeing himself as the hero of the family and I as an obstruction.
Sorry if this isn't consise, or is filled with disrespectful judgements. I'm weary and in need of a good rest. Didn't sleep much last night.
Thanks, everyone. Talk again soon.

P.S. I see how he could be having an affair, and blaming me, as well as building the house "for me" could be an out for him, a way of relieving himself of the guilt.
But at this time, I don't know for sure.

You acknowledged AnyWife's advice, but you did not say whether you are going to take it. Are you going to see your doctor?

I think seeing your doctor is very important. It won't stop your H having an affair (and I, too, believe that he is having one) but if you are depressed, or suffering some other condition that affects your concentration and focus, you need to get help with that. It will make a big difference to how you cope with daily life.

'Developing your communication skills' will accomplish nothing if he is having an affair. You need to do a very thorough search to rule this out before anything else. At this point he does not seem to want to learn anything about his responsibilities, he wants to leave you (very likely to pursue an affair). Now is not the time to develop your communication skills, it is the time to quietly AND THOROUGHLY snoop.

What do you think about getting a VCR for his car? If he has a burner phone that he is talking on to alleviate the possibility of you seeing a number on the phone bill, you could still catch him this way.

You need to up your snooping. Get a VAR in his car. Get spyware on his phone and a keylogger on your computer. Hire a PI to follow him around town.

Keep in mind that it doesn't take much time at all to meet up with an OW. We get so many people on this board who think that their spouse "doesn't have the time for an affair" only to find out that it was going on all along.

Dr. Harley advises women to first invite her husband to join this program with her. If he refuses, Dr. Harley advises her to Plan A her husband for 3 weeks, followed by a Plan B.

You can read about that here:
When to Call it Quits, Part 1

Also, find out when and where he is getting an escape -- what is he doing for recreation? Find out, and join him. Get someone to take care of the kids and show up to surprise him.

Does anyone know if there are any legal ramifications of recording conversations, if they are only used for personal reasons, not in a court of law? DH is very legally proficient, and I don't want to botch this. This is taking frustratingly long for me because money and child care are hard to come by right now.
My doctor is very far away. Once again, trouble finding suitable child care makes it very difficult to do. But I will see what I can do.
My energy level is much better now. And I feel far less depressed. I don't think medication is the answer for me. The first year after dd was born was difficult for both DH and me. But I feel my normal energy level and moods returning. DH has also noticed, and has recognized that our home life is better. We've spent more and more time together these past couple of weeks, and he is always open to me joining him wherever he is. There are always a few minutes here and there where he could be with someone else, but these minutes could also be accounted for legit activities.
If I can confirm or rule out an affair, we can take the next step. I know time is of the essence. I just don't want to screw up the sleuthing and make things worse.
Anyway, it does no good to be telling all of you this. Just want to let you know I am still working on it, and if you know whether or not recording convos is legal, I'd appreciate it.
Does it make a difference, depending on whose name the vehicle is in?

Also should mention that I've read quite a bit of Dr Harley's articles and q&a's. But I will re-read some of the more relevant ones, such as the plan a and b articles, as time allows. Unfortunately, I have to dash. Will let you know when I have more to post.

Thanks, again.

You will have to check your state's laws, however, you are facing a much greater *REAL* risk. The greater risk is losing your marriage to an affair if you don't uncover the affair. [if any] I have been on the board for 14 years and have seen many divorces because of such failure.

On the other hand, I have NEVER seen a spouse get in trouble for spying. Mainly because it is not in the best interest of a cheating spouse to go after his spouse for spying. The reason is because waywards don't want to invite that level of exposure. They will always THREATEN to sue, but they never do.

If you are looking for entirely risk free solutions, you should give up now because there is no such thing.

Honestly you won't ever really get in trouble. I understand your timidness but please snoop and see what's going on in your life. Hopefully you find nothing. But you have to at least look.

You can always say it is marital property so you thought it was fine.