Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 26
N
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 26
So my husband called me at work and said "I have to talk to you right now, it can't wait." So he comes to my work and tells me he knows that I am not happy and have not been happy for a long time. He said he will let me walk away from our 22 yr. marriage without a fight. Today is the day that he decided to stop fighting for our marriage. Husband traveled for 18 yrs. of our marriage and cheated on me for sure with one person, maybe more. He recently took a job in our home town hoping things would get better. But we both still live a pretty independent life. It is hard not to when he wants to sit and watch tv and surf the net. He does not make much effort when it comes to me. He will bend over backwards for his friends, co-workers and dad's family to make something happen. I am pretty much responsible for my teenage girls and he does what he wants, when he wants. He has been estranged from his dad and that side of the family for 15 yrs. and now has made piece with his dad and wants a relationship. The problem is, his dad is not a good person and I do not want my girls around him. That sounds crazy as I type this, but it is true. His dad has an explosive temper and thinks the world revolves around him. My FIL has been arrested in the past 5-8 yrs. for exposing himself in the Target parking lot. I am not saying he would ever try anything with my kids, but you just never know. I don't want to subject my girls to the possibility and I don't want the drama in our lives. He thinks I am overreacting and should give him another chance. It only takes one slip up to emotionally ruin my girls self esteem and confidence. That is something that I am not willing to budge on.

I asked if he would consider counseling and he said absolutely not. Waste of money. So now I have 2 options, try to work on the marriage that is so broken I don't know if it can be fixed or divorce.

Can't focus on getting my work done and I know I have to continue the conversation in a few hours when I get home.

Anybody got any emergency advice for me that might help right my sinking marriage?


Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Yes. Based upon your previous posts I would go see an attorney RIGHT NOW and put yourself in the best position for divorce. Then file!

Then, I would go into plan B, changing the locks and having him move out.

You do not want to pull your husband up a mountain while he is kicking and screaming screaming. He is a serial cheater (affair and porn addict) and you can't compete.

Don't warn him that you are filing. He already told you his plan. Meanwhile, get access to all potential methods of gathering info because it's likely that he is having another affair or the prospect of one. It will be good to have that knowledge for your kids' sake.

This is hard to accept. But it's time to go that direction. If your marriage is ever to be worth it, he will have to feel the loss and change his mindset completely. Move on because you can't make that happen, and your best chance is for him to see the consequences of his actions and lose you.

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Second thought...

See an attorney and let other vet posters weigh in on the order of things.

I'm thinking have him served and locks changed at same time if possible.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
This should really be in the surviving an affair forum because he's a serial cheat and you either need a marital or personal recovery plan.

You could present him with the plan for surviving an affair. It sounds like he has a very entrenched secret second life though and expects you to make yourself happy leaving him free to cheat. You would need to be together 24/7 and his father would need to be excluded from your lives entirely.

The divorce offer is most likely a bluff designed to make you panic and grant him more freedom. Or one of his mistresses is being demanding. There is absolutely at least one current mistress - no question. A divorce would actually be a lot more beneficial to you then him because you are putting up with a lot while he has the ideal set up.

He's right about the counselling though. You need positive things done, not negative things discussed.

I would not really stress about having a conversation with him - at least not a back and forth one. I would just inform him your requirements for remaining married are on the coffee table and leave the print out checklist for him. Tell him he will need a place to stay if he doesn't find it appealing.

You have nothing to lose but a very neglectful and abusive marriage. Not even your daughters are a 'stay married' factor since he is modelling terrible marital habits of what to expect in a husband. And potentially bringing them into danger!

They know about his affairs and that they should be wary right?



Last edited by indiegirl; 07/07/15 07:09 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
How to know when to end Plan B?

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.


I would remove the exposure part because you should do that part yourself without warning. The 'reveal information' section - add in that he must pass a polygraph. Change the word lover to lovers and affair to affairs as he's likely a serial cheat.

If he's game for these basic requirements then introduce him to this program where he will have to put a lot more effort into courting you.

If he gets angry or defensive change the locks and move into Plan B immediately. Plan B means he loses all contact with you until and unless he is willing to be a husband.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,433
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,433
It is absolutely clear that your wayward husband is up to something. Most likely, there is a OW in the background pushing his buttons.

You need to decide which of two paths you want to take.

1) Plan B and file for divorce. The guy is a serial cheater. The odds for recovery are long, and he is hardly promising marriage material to start with. If I were you, that is what I would do.

2) Fight for your marriage. Snoop big time and find out who the current OW/OWs are. Once you have the evidence, expose the affairs far and wide to everyone who has any influence over your WH. Read "Surviving an Affair". It gives a complete picture of what you will have to do.

There is a good case to be make that you should snoop and expose no matter what, but it is important that you decide what you want. We are here to guide you through the steps. Do not tell your WH about this forum. It will undermine your interests to do so.


me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650

Exposure and snooping are always beneficial, regardless of your goal. They still benefit personal recoveries...her daughters need to know and she requires the support of loved ones.

So she can take the steps you advise now and then decide later. She would need to go into Plan B within three weeks in any case.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Originally Posted by Indiegirl
The divorce offer is most likely a bluff designed to make you panic and grant him more freedom. Or one of his mistresses is being demanding. There is absolutely at least one current mistress - no question. A divorce would actually be a lot more beneficial to you then him because you are putting up with a lot while he has the ideal set up.

This.

Otherwise why would he interupt her at work. He is facing some type of pressure.

Need2BHeard, I would click notify and ask the mods to move this to the SAA section.

Last edited by DidntQuit; 07/07/15 10:06 AM. Reason: Quote corrected
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 26
N
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 26
Thanks for the advice and guidance. WH and I had a very long discussion last night that was civil and productive. No angry outbursts from either of us.

I already snoop so I think I can safely say there is not another woman at this time. He is home every night with me and the kids (with work exception). We have done everything on the list except avoiding overnight travel and exposure. WH took a job in town about 4 months ago and the position requires that he travel to Chicago every now and then for a project. The OW that I know about was in Houston and there has been no contact and it was made clear that there would be absolutely NO communications between the two. I helped draft the email and removal of OW from any contact list in computer and phone. I have the OW #s and check the phone bill.

As for exposure, that has been a difficult task. WH has told one close friend and I have told a few of my closest friends. The A that I know about ended before I even knew about it. That does not mean there isn't more that I don't know, but because we lived such separate and independent lives before he stopped the weekly traveling there is no way for me to verify or research other possible As in Houston. The only people to expose it to at this point would be MIL, my mom & dad and our kids. I understand exposure would help alleviate the potential for future As, but if I have no solid proof there is something currently going on then I am not sure I should open that can of worms. I could expose to the parents with little remorse or sadness, but I don't think I can do it to the kids.

WH and I certainly have different needs and I have in the past tried to meet his with little results. It wasn't until recently that I pretty much stopped trying to cater to he needs because he was oblivious to those efforts and made none of his own. I made sure he understood that last night. He's a touchy feely person and I am not. He is a say what I feel right now kind of guy with no thought about how it comes out or hurts. I am the quiet, non-confrontational kind of person until pushed into a corner. I need/want WH to make an effort on a continuous basis that he loves me and wants only me. He makes excuses and says that not the kind of person he is and he does not think that will change after 22 yrs.

Honestly, I don't feel that I am currently at my breaking point. But that does not mean it is not in the near future. I know what it feels like, I have been there before and come out on the other side still married because he was not willing to give up back then. Now the story is flipped and he continues to tell me that he wants me to be happy with or without him. Just be happy. I am having trouble finding that happiness and am not sure what that looks and feels like anymore. I want it, but it always seems to be out of reach. Always one more curve-ball life throws my way to muck up the water.

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 26
N
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 26
BTW, I did request that my thread be moved to SAA upon your suggestion.

Thanks! Yesterday it felt like divorce was going to be forced upon me.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
You can't recover from an affair, even a historic one without that checklist. Any kind of traveling is a disaster for non affair marriages much less a serial cheat. I am glad to hear you snoop, but that's like scooping out the ocean with a pail when he goes away without you regularly.

Your kids should have the explanation for his very unhusbandly behaviour. The worst case scenario is that they consider his behaviour normal. Letting children know the truth about the key people in their lives is not a 'can of worms'. The longer I am on these forums the more alarmed I get about people who lie to their kids. We see very frequent examples of waywards who themselves had a cheating parent, but it was covered up and presented as normal.

Of course they should know about their fathers past - imagine if it was your mother hiding this stuff from you - and they should know about their grandfather's criminal offence. This is assuming they haven't already discovered these things but remain under the impression you dont talk about these things.

If your husband wants to reassure them that he is committed to the family and will do whatever it takes to make up for past mistakes there is nothing whatsoever preventing him from doing that. If he wants to persist in giving his dad a chance in light of their knowledge, I'm sure they would have their own opinions on that score.

I doubt he will do anything to reassure them while his actions and neglect are being covered up though.


Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
Honestly, I don't feel that I am currently at my breaking point. But that does not mean it is not in the near future. I know what it feels like, I have been there before and come out on the other side still married because he was not willing to give up back then. Now the story is flipped and he continues to tell me that he wants me to be happy with or without him. Just be happy. I am having trouble finding that happiness and am not sure what that looks and feels like anymore. I want it, but it always seems to be out of reach. Always one more curve-ball life throws my way to muck up the water.


Your decision not to do anything towards tackling things is a curve ball of your own throwing. If a marriage is not actively recovered, or walked away from of course it sucks.

This program guarantees either personal or marital recovery. If you don't approve of the methods, you're stuck waiting for a 'breaking point' wich at this moment has a guaranteed delivery date, albeit on a slow boat from China.

Why you are waiting to be broken rather than taking proactive steps is somewhat confusing though.

There is every chance that proper recovery methods would buck your husband up, and if it didn't you could separate knowing you'd done all you could and would be able to give your children a full and honest explanation.


I know you want to do something, but try methods that work. Counselling has a disastrous success rate whereas this forum is chock a block with success stories attributed to exposure.

Why Dr H's entire career, and the basis of saving countless marriages, was borne of finding out about his grandfathers affair at the age of four.



Last edited by indiegirl; 07/07/15 01:23 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
Dr. Harley on telling the children:

.
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
Quote:
The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.

An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.
here

Quote:
Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.



Quote:
The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
here

Quote:
2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).
here

Quote:
My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.

The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.

The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).

Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.

It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
BTW, I did request that my thread be moved to SAA upon your suggestion.

Thanks! Yesterday it felt like divorce was going to be forced upon me.


I'd be stunned if he filed to be honest.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650

Dr Harley on exposure of a long dead affair.

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
What about exposure of an affair that took place years earlier and is now ended but recently revealed? I feel that the children, close relatives, close friends, and the lovers spouse should be informed. Granted, it's embarrassing to admit an affair, but publicly admitting failure is usually the first step toward redemption.



His mind set will never change until he is confronted with the reality of people's shock.

Mind, I don't think his affairs are over. Affairs are either an addiction to one person, or an addiction to affairs in general. He has too much privacy and space and no accountability. No addict can truly recover in those conditions.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
Does your snooping involve spyware and looking for burner phones? If that turned up nothing I'd hire a PI.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 26
N
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 26
Wow indiegirl! Thanks for providing multiple quotes from Dr. H. It does give me hope that I too can do that. I know in my heart it is the right thing, it is just one of those things/conversations you don't want to have with your kids. There are things that I believe as a parent that it is my duty to protect my kids from and that has always been one of them along with my FIL. I did not think I would have to have the talk about my FIL with my girls because he has been absent and still does not appear to be missing that relationship. That is a conversation I absolutely know is a must. I can 100% guarantee no contact with my girls until they know the whole truth about FIL and why he has been absent in their lives. To solidify the FIL situation, my husband has a step-sister that he never really knew about until 2 yrs. ago. The step-sister is in her late 40s/early 50s and she just recently found FIL. FIL never made an attempt to find her and have a relationship. FIL never made an attempt to get in contact with WH until WH attended his grandmother's funeral that no one in the family cared to tell him about.

I can do this, I know I can and I know it is right thing to do. Now to find the right words for a 12 and 15 yr. old and make it happen.

Thanks again, indiegirl for the kick in the pants.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
Need I would read the exposure thread first before you do any exposure. You want to expose to all parties within 24 hours for the best shock and awe effect on your husband.I'd also snoop at a high level to check for current affairs - you'll want to expose those at the same time if so.

Like a band aid.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 26
N
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 26
Spyware-yes. Burner phones-no. I honestly don't believe there is a current affair happening. I pretty much know every move he makes, purchases, who he calls, texts etc.

My unhappiness makes him unhappy and the merry-go round keeps turning. He is willing to stop the ride and let me off. He says not because he wants to, but because he feels that is the adult thing to do. So this shows he has the ability to see my pain and unhappiness, just lacks the skills or desire to contribute to what could make me happy. That sounds a little harsh, but feels to be the truth. Which BTW, I don't even know what would fix that for me? Part of me believes that he wants what is best for me, our kids and family but the other part struggles to understand why our marriage is not worth the effort. Neither of us believe the grass is greener on the other side for sure. Huge fear of coming to that realization after it is too late. I am willing to continue to work, learn and struggle along with him in this game called Life.

One good piece of news that you may see differently is that we are going on a family vacation to Chicago next week while he works a few days. He wants the family to visit the office and meet his co-workers. Gives me the chance to piss on my territory in a way. Not that makes a BIG difference to any predators out there but there is a little satisfaction.

So glad MB is here and the members are active in helping others through tough times when we feel so alone and hopeless.

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 26
N
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 26
That will be my priority this afternoon to read and learn the proper method.

Thanks!

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
Spyware-yes. Burner phones-no. I honestly don't believe there is a current affair happening. I pretty much know every move he makes, purchases, who he calls, texts etc.

My unhappiness makes him unhappy and the merry-go round keeps turning. He is willing to stop the ride and let me off. He says not because he wants to, but because he feels that is the adult thing to do. So this shows he has the ability to see my pain and unhappiness, just lacks the skills or desire to contribute to what could make me happy. That sounds a little harsh, but feels to be the truth. Which BTW, I don't even know what would fix that for me? Part of me believes that he wants what is best for me, our kids and family but the other part struggles to understand why our marriage is not worth the effort. .


An affair is very little effort and hugely ego boosting. Nobody is allowed to complain, both parties gush about unconditional love and the immensely addictive feelings are created effortlessly, in a secretive bubble. When they dry up its all over, no hard feelings. To be resumed when convenient.

Without exposure, the wayward returns to the marriage expecting a similar dynamic and for his wife to fall over in gratitude she was chosen. When you have a low standards mistress who does cartwheels when she's chosen for 'her turn' of spending the day with the grand prize, your sense of 'effort' gets severely dented.

Your husband has paid you no just compensation, his reputation has been protected and if cheating didn't end the marriage, being a bit neglectful won't either (except it will). That's why this program insists on that checklist. Exposure creates motivation for him to try. On some level he expects the marriage to have the same ease and lack of effort as an affair. Without exposure it's not viewed as disgusting or wrong, just merely something that happened.

Originally Posted by NeedToBeHeard
Spyware-yes. Burner phones-no. I honestly don't believe there is a current affair happening. I pretty much know every move he makes, purchases, who he calls, texts etc.
s.


I honestly don't see how he could prevent himself from resuming affair contact while away from you. Or starting a new one. He clearly has a need for the type of cheap unconditional love you only get in affairs. While away from you it would be beyond easy to meet up with OW, or speak to women in bars. Use hotel phones or computers. Given that so many affairs take place at work there's no need for purchases or calls come to that.

One poster snooped on her husband for ages after d day only to find out later they had a verbal agreement to a monthly meet up at lunch near his office. She would fly in from another country. Another would drive her husband to work and he still found time for affair contact.

Exposure also exposes the OW to her connections so as to effectively run her off. Time apart is NEVER recommended even for couples who've never experienced affairs because they are such an invitation for affairs.

I know you feel good about his inviting the family out - but honestly I don't like it. It doesn't match up one bit with what he has said about an impending divorce. Things that don't add up make me nervous.

If I had to guess, a male wayward wants to keep both women (unlike a wayward wife who wants to leave). He's mentioned divorce to you, to shake you up and make you pay more attention to him. He's going to parade his family in front of the mistress for much the same reason because she's getting demanding. Essentially an on going competition will see both women strive harder for him. On her side, anyway.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.


Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 439 guests, and 49 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Bibbyryan860, Ian T, SadNewYorker, Jay Handlooms, GrenHeil
71,838 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5