Hi,

I've been reading some of the threads here and I've also read the basic concepts as well as some of the articles. I think the concepts are quite interesting and would like to apply them to my marriage. One article that seems really relevant pertains to the nagging wife. A lot of it really does describe me and my wife.

We're newlyweds (just over a month), we lived together before (I know this isn't recommended by many) for just about a yr prior. Just as the article says, everything was just peachy in the beginning and we each thought we found the perfect person. Somewhere along the line, something happened and like the article says, I probably started doing things out of selfishness (unbeknownst to me at the time) that started the our conflicts. I know I have a tendency to be a bit selfish so I know that is likely it.

Most of the complaints are about household things, but I honestly don't know what else I can do. I do most of the cooking and cleaning (I don't clean very well but I try my best), the laundry, the shopping and packing away of groceries and yard work as well. She's pretty busy as a nurse and does photography on the side. She also has tons of friends that gets her best efforts as well, so basically I have to do all the house work. Nothing is ever good enough. If I do the cooking and laundry one day, she'll come home and ask why the yard work isn't done or the floor isn't vacuumed. If I do those she'll ask why the dishes aren't put away. Apparently I need to do 5 things when I get home from work as 3 isn't enough. I buy the wrong brands of things at the grocery store, the yard isn't cut well enough, things aren't put away in exactly the right place, etc. you get the picture.

So we argue about all this stuff and here is where our different perceptions of things become very frustrating. When she complains she uses profanity, name calling, raises her voice, tells me I do nothing right, I'm selfish, etc. The problem is that I find this bordering on verbally abusive but she sees this as normal complaining. I tell her complaining is fine but I don't like interacting in this manner so I won't continue. I really can't stand fighting so yelling back in the beginning wasn't happening so I kept quiet, keeping to my explanation that what we're doing isn't productive. This just makes things worse and she escalates, continues the name calling, slams doors and demands that I apologize since I started the argument made her mad. I eventually do this because I have to work the next day and I need peace as the article on here says. If I ever try to counter anything she says or to clarify my position or how I really feel, I get accused of always wanting to be right and not wanting to admit when I'm wrong but I don't really see the connection. I feel like I can't negotiate anything because I get called selfish for wanting something different from her so of course I yield.

We went to pre marital counselling at the church and she always does well there, admitting faults, promising to work with me more and feel hopeful but once we get home, she's not interested in any of what we learned.

I really don't know how to improve things. I really would like a marriage where I feel like I can always talk about EVERYTHING with my spouse without fighting. I honestly think half the things we fight over is meaningless and not that important in the big picture. I also feel like I can't approach her with anything as we'll just end up fighting or I'll just be called selfish or always wanting to be right or some similar such judgement.

She thinks all this is normal because supposedly her dad was always angry and their parents fought a lot. My upbringing was the exact opposite so its hard for me dealing with this.

How do I even attempt to apply any of the suggestions from this site?

Thanks.

Is your wife aware of MB? If so what has she said to you about the basic concepts?

Did you discuss any of them before you were married?

Hi llw14,

One thing to be aware of is that Dr. Harley says one doesn't have to meet every single emotional need perfectly, but that you need to focus on the most important emotional needs. So while it is great to focus effort on addressing her complaints about the house, you may find that you can compensate by meeting other emotional needs better.

The largest love bank deposits for a woman usually come from the emotional needs of conversation and affection. How are these? Are you following the policy of undivided attention? Take note that Dr. Harley says this is the most important part of the program and that Marriage Builders will not work without following it. All of the concepts work together to support each other and make the whole program effective.

Do you have children with your wife? If so, meeting her need for family commitment is also a way to make large love bank deposits.

Since you described yourself taking care of things at home before your wife gets home, I'd like to know if you are supporting her financially. Financial support is an important emotional need for many women, often even for women who work and earn a large income themselves. If she is earning the bulk of the marital income she may feel resentful toward you and feel that you ought to be doing more in other ways, which might explain why she is so critical about household tasks. It sounds like you work - do you work full time?

You described your wife's demands, disrespectful judgments, and and angry outbursts as "borderline abusive," but Dr. Harley defines all of this behavior as abusive. Are you ever demanding, disrespectful, or angry yourself? Most men who come here seem to have a big problem being disrespectful without realizing it.

It's important to complain about your wife's abusive behavior. In the book Love Busters and with the couples he counsels, Dr. Harley has the couple exchange a weekly worksheet of love busters. During the week whenever one marital partner is demanding, disrespectful, or angry, the other one notes it on their worksheet. There's no need to discuss it at the time because most couples fight when they do that. Then they exchange worksheets once a week, the goal being to go for a week with an empty worksheet. If I were in your situation I would tell your wife that I don't feel like either of us should ever be demanding, disrespectful, or angry with each other, and ask her to tell me whenever she feels I am doing one of these things. Then I would start giving her my own list once a week and asking if she would give me one.

If your wife is unwilling to stop being demanding, disrespectful, and angry, you may need to look at getting some professional help. I would START with an email to Dr. Harley on his radio show (free) and from there you may need to move on to the Marriage Builders online program or phone coaching with Steve Harley or Dr. Jennifer Chalmers.

Speaking of Dr. Harley's radio show, do you have the Marriage Builders Radio app? I recommend listening to the radio show daily especially for husbands whose wives do not feel like following the Marriage Builders program. It's like a free hour of professional marriage instruction from Dr. Harley every day.

Let me just point out to you that this statement is disrespectful towards your wife's perspective. Something that is meaningless to one marital partner may be extremely important to the other. Strive to always be respectful when you describe your wife's perspective, even if she is not present. You won't be able to solve your marital problems if you cannot discuss her perspective respectfully.

Also, disrespectful judgments are a love bank withdrawal, and in a hurting marriage the last thing you need is more love bank withdrawals. They will only make the problems worse.

State your feelings without invalidating her feelings: "It doesn't much matter to me where we live, but she doesn't like living in Pittsburgh and wants us to move" for example.

I showed her this website. She doesn't seem to be a fan of online forums/coaching/etc. She's more hands on. She has also refused to read the concepts.

Yes, I've seen this advice given a lot on this site and it makes sense. I've avoided doing this since but I do keep it to myself.

That is very typical for a wife in withdrawal! As you make love bank deposits, you should be able to turn her feelings around to some extent, assuming you focus on getting really, really good at making the large love bank deposits that are necessary.

It's essential that you be able to talk about her perspective respectfully, without invalidating what she feels, so be sure not to go down the road of saying that the things she is upset about are "meaningless."

Since you lived together for a year prior to marriage, is that behavior something new since your marriage three months ago or something that was also happening while living together?

She's really so busy that we don't have time together. She's a nurse and works an irregular schedule. We only have nights together for an hr or so before bed. I would like more than this but things just seem to get in the way somehow. Her friends are also extremely important to her. She has tons and she likes interacting with them daily.

She's 8 weeks pregnant; first child for both of us.

I'm the higher earner, I work full time as an engineer. Interestingly enough, money is not one of our sources of arguments as we're on the same page there most of the time.

Well, her complaint in this regard is that I shut down when the argument happens and she describes this as being emotionally abusive towards her. She sees this as a form of punishment as I'm unwilling to communicate. In my mind I do this because I find her arguments and overall behaviour to be somewhat overwhelming at times and it seems like I'm just wired to withdraw to process what's happening before I react. I've tried to not do this but my thoughts are never clear and composed. Whenever I say anything, things just seem to get worse.

What I have tried more recently, again, just like the article on this site says, is fighting fire with fire, but I simply don't have the temperament to match hers to win this way.


We have tried in counselling before and the advice we got makes sense and she actually agreed while in the presence of the neutral facilitator but once we got home, none of it was applied.

How can I sell her on this program and the books so that we can even apply the principles? I let it go the first time as she refused. Again it came down to me being selfish as I wanted to try a program that I wanted and not what she wanted.

The answer to this question resides in a question. What's in it for her? I guarantee you that if you approach her with this or any other program with the goal of fixing her then she probably isn't going to respond.

That's why the focus of Markos' advice to you has been on her complaints about you. Not the other way around.

The first occurrence was when we were just living together. I'd say we have one bad throwdown a month or so on average and maybe one other mini fight with me pre-emptively apologizing so that things don't escalate.

I am concerned about the counseling you guys got. I meant to mention that in my previous post. Counseling should not be having her "accept blame." This is very demotivating. Marriage Builders teaches you how to resolve conflict without assigning blame or being disrespectful to each other.

Marriage Builders teaches "win/win" solutions. The counseling you got gave a "win/lose" solution where she lost. That's why she didn't apply any of it. It was a loss for her. She needs you to look out for her and make sure that no counselor ever makes her out to be the bad guy and gives instructions that require her to sacrifice or are supposed to benefit the marriage at her expense. This is also probably why she doesn't want to do another program with you. She suspects it will be more of the same: a loss for her.

That's the exact same way my wife felt!

I have more comments to make, but I want to make sure you see this first.

Good point. How can I approach it so that it doesn't appear as me wanting to fix her but wanting a great marriage? The main obstacle is that she doesn't like or trust the internet for this sort of thing.

Oh by way, thanks for all the help so far guys.

Don't fight with her, ever - avoid fighting at all costs. Fighting will ruin her feelings for you. Avoid fighting like you would avoid pushing the ignition button on a nuclear arsenal, because there will be no winners.

Even if she wants to fight with you, don't engage. It'd be better to just stay silent for awhile even if she is upset and even if she tries to punish you for it.

This is why what I said about disrespect is so crucially important. She's not broken, and she's not wrong. She's perfectly normal! Your goal is to help her WIN in a way that is a win for you, as well. You are her partner to help her WIN!

How can you get your wife out on a date with you? She needs you to sweep her off her feet.

I see that.

I thought the counselling for the most part focused on applying certain techniques but I suppose she possibly could have felt like I won and she lost when the pastor suggested that we try the main thing I've been asking her to do for months, which is to take "time outs" before things escalated.

Okay, you need to be extremely aware of the fact that Marriage Builders does not work without following the policy of undivided attention. Read this:

The critical importance of undivided attention

Now, you need to be aware that your wife is not in love with you. People who are in love push other things aside to spend time with the one they are in love with. Your job is to get her to fall in love with you, which you can do by persistently following this program.

Get rid of all your love busters, and start inviting your wife to do things with you, and start joining her for the time she is spending unwinding. Everybody needs an escape from the stresses of life, and as Dr. Harley says, married couples need to escape together. So start inviting her to join you, and start joining her for her escape, and make that escape time WONDERFUL for her. You want to be with her when she is feeling good, because that makes love bank deposits.

Meanwhile, you want to become an expert at meeting her intimate emotional needs: conversation and affection. And also her emotional need for family commitment when the baby comes (and even before): spend 15 hours a week with her and the kids, and make it wonderful. Do you interact lovingly with the baby now, in the womb?


Wow, what article did you see that said this? Dr. Harley says to NEVER do this! The Marriage Builders rule is "if your spouse breaks the rules, don't break the rules yourself." So it's crucially important that if your spouse becomes demanding, disrespectful, or angry, that you do not become demanding, disrespectful, or angry yourself.

Four Guidelines for Successful Negotiation



Nobody EVER wins that way! There are no winners in that game; only losers.

Nuclear weapons, my friend. Put yours away and start asking her to put hers away as well.