I'm obviously new here, I have my whole story posted on a different site where I have been getting great advice. Over there they don't encourage the snooping like it seems to be here. My question is, we are not married (we were engaged for a short time) I was thinking of putting a recorder in her car but wasn't sure of the legal end of it. Both our names are on the title and registration of the car. She has sole possession of if since she moved out. Am I legally allowed to do that or is it a no go?

Welcome to MB.

Whether this is legal or not depends on laws where you live. Have you tried looking them up online?

I live in Pennsylvania, not able to find a whole lot online?

If you are not married, I don't see the point of snooping on her because she is a free agent. Dating is a job interview for marriage. If the candidate fails the interview, the solution is to move on, not snoop on her. She is a free agent, so let her be.

Free agent with a 4 year old son and a home on the line? Not in my books

Sorry, but you are not married. Having a child is not a "commitment." She is free to pursue other relationships.

What's her perspective, though?

You want us to treat this as a marriage, but YOU did not treat this as a marriage. You never married her.

You might be able to turn this around, but you won't do it with snooping. WE are big advocates of snooping in marriage, but not in failed dating relationships. It makes no sense.

The fact is that your GF has probably moved on to greener pastures as most people do when when they live together. Shack up situations are month to month renters agreements in which the participants only stay around until something better comes along. That is what has happened here.

If she will agree to date you, we could help you start anew on a more solid basis as long as you don't shack up again. A real eye opening book is Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders by Dr. Harley. You really should investigate to gain an understanding of the dynamics of living together. They are very fragile relationships and you don't have to make that mistake twice.

Living Together Before Marriage: Compatibility Test or Curse? by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.

But I know divorced people who share children and have homes on the line - if there's no legal tie you are a free agent!

It's just as painful but if you act like there's a commitment she will find that very annoying. The commitment was the kind that can be forgotten about by one party.

If she says she's free, she's free.

PA is a two-party state, which means you need her consent to record her conversations.

Now, why have you not married her? She has your child and a name on the mortgage, but you two have avoided true legal commitment. Explain?

Then we can start to help see if this can be fixed through MB dating principles.

It was financial at the time. We were expecting our son and bought a home instead of the marriage. It was a joint decision. We were finally above water again so I proposed May 9th. She accepted. Gave the ring back may 21st. Moved out may 30th

What makes you think someone else is involved?

Where is she living now?

What were you hoping to do once you had snooped on her?

Another way to prioritize those events that would be much more likely to be successful would be:

1. get married
2. buy a home
3. have a child

I would also add that it cost about $50 to get married so I am confused why you couldn't get married?

My own marriage cost $500. I had a little church wedding followed by a catered reception at my home. Included in the $500 is the cost of the license and the payment to the minister.

I understand we went about it backwards, accidents happen and we stepped up to the plate and did what we felt we had to do. As far as the wedding I wanted to give her the dream wedding she had always wanted. Far from $500 but it was worth it to me for the girl I love. We just aren't the type of people to finance something just to do it. So when I felt we had our feet firmly planted I proposed.

She stayed with a mutual friend for a few weeks and now has her own apartment.

The snooping was more to eliminate possibilities. I personally think nobody else it, it was a piece of mind thing. Claims to need time and space to figure herself out and I hope that's all it is.

We had quite a few stressors lately which put us both in the dumps a little but I didn't think it was bad. My uncle passed away in November. My best friends home burned down in January and his family almost didn't make it out. (Side note to that, when me and him were in high school we lost 8 friends in a fire. At a party we were both supposed to be at). My son spent a weekend in the hospital. Her best friend is on a double lung transplant waiting list... These are the major ones.

Hopefully you can see how wrongheaded that was in hindsight. The purpose of getting married is to unite your relationship in an open, legal commitment, not to have a grand, expensive party. Getting married can be achieved with a visit to the Justice of the Peace. If your goal is to have a big expensive party, you can always do that years later when you can actually afford it.

Anyway, that is all water under the bridge now. Hoping you are reading the resources we provided so you can recover from this and understand why it is a relationship wrecker to shack up.

We see the same outcome quite often in shack up relationships just because of the nature of the beast. They fall apart when conflict enters the relationship because it is easy to just walk away; there is no commitment. The renters mentality is well established due to no commitment.

What happened here is the rule, not the exception.

She probably has met someone else. However, you have no grounds on which to object because her new relationship is as valid as yours. IF you can win her back, we can teach you how to start this over on a more solid footing, i.e.: NOT living together while not married.

Only reason it was going to be a grand party is because she doesn't ask for much and I figured that was the least I could do for her. I mean we both have pretty good jobs and she still drives a 98 Buick and loves it. It was prolly the only expensive thing she ever showed interest in

Any answer for my question?

Sorry markos, overlooked that one.

Honestly I don't know. She has been real clammed up any time I would ask any questions about anything it wouldn't go good so I quit asking