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Bear with me. I have been trying to figure out the Marriage Builders Philosophies and program, but i am Very new to this site.

Very shortly after finding out about my situation i was on a different Affair survival website. That did not end well... I triggered from something a moderator said on my public thread and i (Tactfully) Said i was bothered by her statements and set her straight of HER perceived insight on my situation. My clarification and standing up for my feelings got me banned. (I am not one of those people that get banned for mouthing off... Im just not.)

This banning happened at a crucial time in my relationship... It was painful to be abandoned and with such attitude.

Its funny that i come on here and first i mention my banning... To be honest it hurt to be kicked by strangers like that who knew i was in a tough spot. In some ways it hurt more than what i was dealing with in the first place, which was enough.


So here is my infidelity story. We have been married 9 years in a few weeks. but together for 11. (High school sweethearts) Something i used to be proud of.

around Dec 12 of last year 2014 i hopped on our iPad and i was looking for a previous website i had browsed a few days before, but closed it up and was looking for it again. I noticed many chat with girls and i noticed a sub reddit forum where i found posts by my husband looking for women to share pictures with him and sexual relationship.... BDSM.

On that evening i saw a side of him i never knew existed. My husband had been perfect i (thought). this is a man who cried when he said his vows to me. This is a man who had held my hand through open heart surgery. This was a man who built a life, provided me a home and three boys that i adore.... This new person was a distorted picasso of the man i married.

I sat on the couch scrolling through the iPad looking for more, but yet too stunned to think straight, My husband was right next to me passed out on the couch... It took everything in me not to smother him....

When i could not handle it anymore i threw the iPad at him and shouted at him about chatting with other women and then i left.

The husband went in Delete mode and tried to cover his tracks.... Cause guess what?? There was certainly more! But i did not find out till later.

I was livid at him...I hated him. I shook, i cried, i....I still feel my pain from near 7 months ago, but a part of me just wanted to be bonked on the head and get amnesia, forget about this and go back to Literally thanking god EVERY night for how lucky i am to have a faithful partner. I don't thank god anymore for a faithful partner....

The ensuing weeks were torture... I found out about his wayward behavior four weeks before he had to leave US, me and the kids and go to Japan for four months for work.

Previously we were all supposed to go, but before i found out he was cheating in the relationship i had told him our marriage was strong, and we needed to save money for a big project at the house. I decided i and the kids should stay...Bad idea.... But i just did not know. So he was about to leave the house and the family and go to a country known for their prostitutes and grasping american hunting women.
Not surprisingly my husband seemed willing to suffer four months without sex or affection.... Ha! No he wasn't. He finally got his chance right? He only RECENTLY admitted that he did think Japan and his own apt in Yukosuka was the perfect opportunity to cheat and that he did have intentions to see if he could find a pretty girl......

Anyways, back to past tense... On jan 11 my husband was having panic attacks. He was very sad and clinging to me... Not like clawing, but the reality of him leaving for Japan and the fact that my feet were already out the door.

The reason my feet were practically out the door was the face that he was prowling.... I always thought if he cheated it was because some hottie threw themselves at him and he being a weak man MIGHT give in. but NEVER NEVER NEVER thought he would look to cheat.
That alone was a probable deal breaker.

My husband that night before he left wanted around crying and shaking. I kept asking him what was going on and he just could not speak... He was a mess. I still have NEVER seen a man so broken and scared. He looked like i imagine men on death row feel right before their execution day. But he wasn't telling me anything. Just that he was sad. Sure, being sad makes you cry, but fear makes you shake and hyperventilate. (I was worried about him, but I knew he was not just scared he was leaving... He was fighting something inside...

That next morning was so painful... He was just crying the entire time. While driving to the airport by son, who knew sadly we were having trouble who is Five years old asked if we were breaking up. (many of his friends parents are broken up.) My husband emotionally said no... no no.

He clung to me at the airport all the while his very emotional state was nothing me. Sure i was sad to be saying good by, but i was also just wanting him to go away... To get the job done and just deal with US later.

Hours later I received a Skype call from him at around 3am here. telling me he landed and was at his apartment...and that he had a confession....

In the days before he left he realized that if i was already thinking about leaving him for what i had found, he knew me... I would dig, and i would find the truth and i WOULD file and he would be unable to do anything about it. And if i found out he had been lying anymore, he said he just knew that he had to confess.

He wrote out a few time lines.
I learned about three affairs EA online, Near PA, many many private chats with random girls.
I learned that while i was pregnant with our third son (not an accident. He was planned) my husband was telling a friend who happened to be a stripper that he wanted to divorce me... And many more painful things. He felt this way in 2013-2014. He detailed in the letter that what kept him from asking for a divorce was because i was pregnant and he wanted to cheat and there was no choice but to cheat and wait till the baby was older (Who was not even born yet) before he would divorce.

He has since claimed that he regretted that email the moment he sent it.

Anyway, he gave me a detailed timeline, and i went in to dig mode to get dates.

He had an ashely madison account
a Blackbook
A [censored]
A few dating profiles i found his accounts for but they were tied to an old email that my husband shut down because it was tied to his cheating. (I asked him to delete it before i realized i was going to need it to get my evidence) My mistake.

Husband has been very sorry.... Sorry he got caught. He did tell me that he honestly thought he could get away with it and blow off steam elsewhere and i just would be none the wiser. (Honest at least.) I was his first, he was mine.... and i had hoped only.

He admits that his morals and values were [censored] up. to the point that he wanted to ask me for an open marriage rather than divorce, but he knew i would not go for it.

During the time he was cheating he told me he did not like me very much. He blamed me why? Because he was already cheating and he knew it was wrong so he wanted to make me into this horrible person so that he felt justified to cheat.

In the beginning he told me its because life was hard and he wanted an outlet. that felt good and was separate from me.

During his cheating i had felt the emotional divide. We did not cuddle. I wanted to, but yet i didn't. Something felt off.

TMI WARNING GRAFIC!

He buried himself into his computer and music and work...and women.
But sex never stopped. I liked sex, I had sex with him daily, not out of duty. I just have (Had) a high libido. (So he wasn't hurting for sex.)

Well now back to his confession and the ensuing months while he was away.

His confession came on the very first day of our work imposed separation. It was a bumy ride. My husband thought i was mean telling him how i hurt.... The usual un remorseful behavior.

We broke up many times over Skype. To the point that now when i hear the Skype ring chime i feel my heart hammer. It was a dark time in our marriage. Did so many things wrong, but the time fighting together was all we had. so even thought we were BOTH lashing out hard at each other we just kept going back. It was terrible.

He checked in with me at his work, which is government workplace and at the apt on Skype. I even watched him fall asleep and would wake him up. I felt like a Prison guard....:(



For my birthday he few me over to visit him for a week. It was hard. Sex was hard. Talking in person was even harder. I felt like i had to be the ray of sunshine to keep him trying because back then i felt he just wanted to give up. I should have let him...

The reason i was trying so hard was because if he had sex with a woman in japan while we were forced to be away from each other i knew it would be over. I was not yet sure if i wanted it over. Still am not.

He came home, and its been bumpy. Every three weeks or more we have a bit of a go. The husband is not so defensive, He really tries to listen to my pain, but he still has trouble. He also has a gift at sticking his foot ankle and leg in his mouth. Its incredible. crazy

He has agreed to a polygraph while he was in japan. I still have not followed through with it. I should.

He has tried every other way just about to make amends, but he scared i will still leave him.

Last night i said i can't keep doing this. That more effort on his part is needed. Like reading the book, articles, whatever! But he still has not.

He did not refuse but he made all sorts of excuses about why he had not done what i wanted, and i threw that all back at him that all they were was excuses. I was not interested in excuses only facts.

Anyway... Long winded. 7 months of this and i am so mentally spent. Today i have a play date with the kids and hope that takes my mind off this for a while.

Seems a good place, Hope i can fit in.


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Welcome to Marriage Builders.

Have you read Surviving an Affair?
Have you exposed his affairs?


Markos' Wife
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What to do with an Angry Husband

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Can you tell us what's been done on this list?

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.

Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.


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Pretty much everything on the list has been done. My husband is so amenable to me monitoring him and understands the needs there.

The actual relationships he had with these women were over long before i found out. I found some of the emails. They are over because the women were not real. two were scamming and the other gave up because she felt he was in love with me. And it was pointless to continue. Her words.

Yes he has been exposed to nearly everyone. i have shielded my parents because my dad would kill him.... no joke. My dad is nuts. They love my husband but if they knew he would be dead tomorrow. (Not a dramatization)

My kids need a dad alive.

My husband likes BDSM so in light of him liking it i have taken over in a very controlling manner that is not "like myself" and said okay wear a chastity device. "You want me to be the dominant, fine. No porn and anytime you leave this house you wear your lock em up gear. He WANTS this? sure part of me is like, okay, atleast i know you are not sicking it anywhere, but the other side i just think in a perverse way he likes it... I don't want him to like it, I don't really LIKE IT! Yes it gives me some security, but i don't know. Its not the marriage i wanted, or pictured. Me being some fantasy dominatrix? But I don't know... i am still very lost and have no answers as to why my heart and mind are so conflicted still.

Last edited by threelittlestars; 07/16/15 11:39 AM.
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Originally Posted by threelittlestars
He WANTS this? sure part of me is like, okay, atleast i know you are not sicking it anywhere, but the other side i just think in a perverse way he likes it... I don't want him to like it, I don't really LIKE IT! Yes it gives me some security, but i don't know. Its not the marriage i wanted, or pictured. Me being some fantasy dominatrix? But I don't know... i am still very lost and have no answers as to why my heart and mind are so conflicted still.

Hi 3LS, welcome to Marriage Builders. Sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. Is your husband viewing porn? Men who view porn tend to a) check out of the marriage and b) have weird and unusual sexual tastes. If he is viewing porn, I would insist he stop.

And I would strongly urge you to never engage in sexual acts that you don't like. That is how aversions are created and they are very hard to overcome. You don't help your marriage one bit by doing things you don't like, because you will soon stop doing it altogether. Your sexual relationship should always be mutually enjoyable in order to thrive and grow.

If he will go "seek it elsewhere" if you don't engage in unpleasant sexual acts, then that is another problem altogether. If that is the case, you shouldn't stay with him, because that is blackmail.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I don't want him to like it, I don't really LIKE IT!
Then you need to stop it. Your marriage cannot recover if you are forcing yourself to do things you do not enjoy.

Are you still spending nights apart?
Does he work with any of the OW?


Markos' Wife
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Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders
"Isn't it interesting how someone can miss the point that mutual care in marriage is the only kind of care that makes sense? When your husband tells you that he wants you to care for him by suffering so he can have what he wants, he doesn't understand that this expectation means that he doesn't care about you. And that's the point."

In other words, if your husband is asking you to engage in sexual acts that you don't enjoy, then he is just demonstrating that he doesn't care. Sacrificing in marriage does not bring enjoyment, it creates incompatibility and resentment. The person who is doing the sacrificing eventually gives up.

A better way is to develop win/win solutions that enhance your marriage.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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He has agreed to a polygraph while he was in japan. I still have not followed through with it. I should.
Get on this.


Markos' Wife
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I hear what you all are saying...

And i want to highlight my personal struggle. In this dynamic I feel empowered to demand NO PORN what so ever. I also feel empowered by this... But also uncomfortable because this is not my fantasy.

I feel there is nothing wrong trying new things. I just don't like that i have to impose what i want in this structure. Am i making sense?

I don't hate it, let me clarify, its not my fantasy. I don't hate myself or the act... It does not come naturally to me.

But you al make wonderful points. I don't feel this dynamic is enhancing our marriage, because it feels ordered. Yes he is submitting to me.... but i want it to be genuine, not that i ordered him to and he must comply. etc.

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Sacrificing in marriage does not bring enjoyment, it creates incompatibility and resentment. The person who is doing the sacrificing eventually gives up.
There are a thousand ways in which he would enjoy sex, and a thousand ways in which you would enjoy sex. Out of those, there are a hundred ways you both would enjoy. Find those ways.

He doesn't need BDSM to be sexually fulfilled.


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Are you still spending nights apart?
Does he work with any of the OW?


Markos' Wife
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What to do with an Angry Husband

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Originally Posted by threelittlestars
Last night i said i can't keep doing this. That more effort on his part is needed. Like reading the book, articles, whatever! But he still has not

I would add that he is not reading books, articles, etc, because it is usually a waste of time and he knows it. Most books on marriage don't have a plan. Marriage Builders was largely written for men because it is a step by step plan to get to this goal: a romantic marriage. It really does work.

I predict he will be more receptive to Marriage Builders because it is an actual PLAN.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by threelittlestars
I hear what you all are saying...

And i want to highlight my personal struggle. In this dynamic I feel empowered to demand NO PORN what so ever. I also feel empowered by this... But also uncomfortable because this is not my fantasy.

I feel there is nothing wrong trying new things. I just don't like that i have to impose what i want in this structure. Am i making sense?

Of course there is noting wrong with trying new things. That is not what we are saying. But if you don't ENJOY the new thing, it should be stopped. Your sexual relationship has to be mutually enjoyable in order to be successful. If he has a "fantasy" that you don't enjoy, then he needs to find a fantasy you DO enjoy.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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No he does not work with women for the most part. Mostly middle aged men, Occasionally there are women in the office but i don't see a threat there.

He looked online and the woman he was more serious with he planned on meeting in California. He was going to ask specifically to go on a job there for a weekend so he could bang her. But he was unable to make up a story that i would go along with.

He did not look close by home because he said he did not want it to get physical. he wanted it online, but when he developed feelings for that woman he started thinking he needed to see her, touch her and have sex with her for real.

I have exposed the whole thing as much as i can.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by threelittlestars
I hear what you all are saying...

And i want to highlight my personal struggle. In this dynamic I feel empowered to demand NO PORN what so ever. I also feel empowered by this... But also uncomfortable because this is not my fantasy.

I feel there is nothing wrong trying new things. I just don't like that i have to impose what i want in this structure. Am i making sense?

Of course there is noting wrong with trying new things. That is not what we are saying. But if you don't ENJOY the new thing, it should be stopped. Your sexual relationship has to be mutually enjoyable in order to be successful. If he has a "fantasy" that you don't enjoy, then he needs to find a fantasy you DO enjoy.

You are right, but i am hesitant to end something that also gives me security... Even if its false. frown

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by threelittlestars
Last night i said i can't keep doing this. That more effort on his part is needed. Like reading the book, articles, whatever! But he still has not

I would add that he is not reading books, articles, etc, because it is usually a waste of time and he knows it. Most books on marriage don't have a plan. Marriage Builders was largely written for men because it is a step by step plan to get to this goal: a romantic marriage. It really does work.

I predict he will be more receptive to Marriage Builders because it is an actual PLAN.

I hope that is the case. It seems to be a rather large hang up of mine.

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Originally Posted by Prisca
Are you still spending nights apart?
Does he work with any of the OW?

No he is home for good. And we have a privilege of being able to travel with him no matter where he goes. I will not let him be traveling alone again.

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Originally Posted by threelittlestars
[

You are right, but i am hesitant to end something that also gives me security... Even if its false. frown

It actually makes your marriage less secure because it creates incompatibly and resentment. Isn't it interesting that it does the opposite?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by threelittlestars
Pretty much everything on the list has been done. My husband is so amenable to me monitoring him and understands the needs there.

The actual relationships he had with these women were over long before i found out. I found some of the emails. They are over because the women were not real. two were scamming and the other gave up because she felt he was in love with me. And it was pointless to continue. Her words.

Yes he has been exposed to nearly everyone. i have shielded my parents because my dad would kill him.... no joke. My dad is nuts. They love my husband but if they knew he would be dead tomorrow. (Not a dramatization)

My kids need a dad alive.
l.


I remember thinking this. My dad is the type who has shown boyfriends the axe in his car. He loathed my husband pre affair. My dad has seriously beaten up some very bad people.

So I gathered my courage and I told him. Predictably he offered to beat him up - but his main concern was for me. I said no thanks.

He was dead against affair recovery but I said I was big girl able to make my own decisions.

When I showed him the recovery plan and everything my h would have to do he said 'that's fair. It would take a dedicated husband to do it and I think I'm ok with a man who would do it. But honey, he won't.'

My dad was right and would never have let me get away with half measures, skipping stuff on that checklist, putting off a polygraph and skipping exposure targets. Honestly if your husband did get a smack from your dad it would be no less than he deserves.

The person you won't expose to is usually the person who won't let you get away with sweeping the A under the rug.


Last edited by indiegirl; 07/16/15 01:00 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by threelittlestars
Pretty much everything on the list has been done. My husband is so amenable to me monitoring him and understands the needs there.

The actual relationships he had with these women were over long before i found out. I found some of the emails. They are over because the women were not real. two were scamming and the other gave up because she felt he was in love with me. And it was pointless to continue. Her words.

Yes he has been exposed to nearly everyone. i have shielded my parents because my dad would kill him.... no joke. My dad is nuts. They love my husband but if they knew he would be dead tomorrow. (Not a dramatization)

My kids need a dad alive.
l.


I remember thinking this. My dad is the type who has shown boyfriends the axe in his car. He loathed my husband pre affair. My dad has seriously beaten up some very bad people.

So I gathered my courage and I told him. Predictably he offered to beat him up - but his main concern was for me. I said no thanks.

He was dead against affair recovery but I said I was big girl able to make my own decisions.

When I showed him the recovery plan and everything my h would have to do he said 'that's fair. It would take a dedicated husband to do it and I think I'm ok with a man who would do it. But honey, he won't.'

My dad was right and would never have let me get away with half measures, skipping stuff on that checklist, putting off a polygraph and skipping exposure targets. Honestly if your husband did get a smack from your dad it would be no less than he deserves.

The person you won't expose to is usually the person who won't let you get away with sweeping the A under the rug.

My dad faced jail time when my sisters husband cheated on her. Their relationship never recovered after she followed that advice to tell my parents. i SAW what happened. This is not something my dad has learned from that encounter and legal issues since either. He has frequently said he should have planned it out more... made it look like an accident...SCARY. So...no i will NOT tell my dad. Also won't tell them because my family will NOT support me staying with my husband. They believe once a cheat always a cheat....

But all others of importance have been told. His entire side of the family. It has caused issues with his mother because obviously i did something to cause him to stray. Her baby boy could not have possibly chosen that path on his own. She also accused me two weeks ago of being too hard on him and raking him through the coals. This has made me second guess everything! Yet i know.... Course she said that, Its her son. But it pained me to hear her say that.

Work was informed because his job performance sucked. For some reason if we separate he will be checked on at work... Don't know why. He is in a top secret part of the government. Not like FBI or CIA... Just works for a nosy part of the military.

Friends have been told. Everyone but my side of the family. But i do have a good support system. My friends are great. I also have an IC.

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