Hi,
I just found this website and am new to the principles- although I have read them. I've been married for 5 years, known my husband since highschool. We have 2 young children. We've had relationship problems for approx 4 years, since our first child was born. My husband does not want to go through therapy. I am seeing a therapist since he doesn't want to.
We have several large issues in our relationship- that are causing constant stress in our relationship. 1. His mom has been a source of conflict in our relationship since we've had kids. I feel he puts his mom before me- I had told him and he is only defensive and argumentative. 2. trust. his parent's had an ugly divorce. and he says things to me and does things that show he has major trust issues. 3. family. He doesn't like my family, or friends. and he doesn't want them over to our house to spend the night. He also doesn't really like his family- sisters and he doesn't have a relationship with his dad since the divorce. 4. lack of love. He is generally cold- part of it is personality. part of it is the fact that we haven't been getting along for a very long time.
In his opinion, our problems center around my anger. I have anger issues- from my own childhood.
My husband has been extremely angry with me on and off. He has said things like he will "tolerate the miserable marriage for the sake of the kids". I have been thinking about divorce because I am really unsure of what to do. We have been fighting regularly- with brief periods of getting along. When I try to discuss topics with him- he is very defensive, and stonewalls me. I feel like I can't reach him.
He did go to the therapist approx 1 month ago- the therapist said that he didn't need to come back because he wasn't motivated to change anything.
SO any suggestions on where to start in this situation. At this point, I am avoiding my husband- to avoid a fight/stress.
My husband has said to me he doesn't want to get divorced- but he doesn't show interest in putting in effort beyond what he currently is doing.
Any ideas for knowing when to stop trying in a relationship?

Carrotsandpeas, welcome!

An MB marriage will help you put that mom-or-me question to rest peacefully. There is an article about it in the Q&As, do you want me to link it or did you already read it? What do you think of the suggestions? You're going to have to get effective at creating big changes in your marriage by negotiating together for the win-win instead of fighting.

How can you two address the trust thing? Have you talked with your H about simple things you two can do, like sharing passwords, be an open book, etc.?

How come you want friends and family to stay the night when he doesn't want them to?

Have you two talked about affection, there is a really good article about that specifically, too, do you want me to link it or you read it already?

Have you read about Love Busters, do you use your anger to signal you to work with your H respectfully for a resolution, or does it turn into an angry outburst (AO)?

You will KNOW when to stop trying! Deep in your gut.

Hi NewEveryDay,

I read over the question re: MIL. We haven't talked about creating a policy of joint agreement. Right now he is so upset with me that he probably wouldn't cooperate. My husband blames me a lot in regards to his mom. And his mom has a history of being manipulative to get what she wants. Honestly I think if it came down to me or his mom- he would choose his mom. He has told me that "she is his only family" and his mom has told me that "I am his only family". He is not open to discussing the situation- I have told him how I feel and he doesn't seem to understand why it is important for me to feel like I am 1st in his life.
As far as the trust issue- I think he trusts me somewhat. But he fears that I will take his money, turn the kids against him- if we divorce (as he thinks his mom did). My husband doesn't want to share passwords with me. I had to really make it an issue for us to be on the same bank account- 4 years into the marriage. His mom had been on his account up till that point.
I have family and friends that live out of town. I would like them to stay with us (even for 1 night) if they are in town. A friend came this weekend, my husband didn't want her to stay with us, so we went to my parent's home.
As far as affection, I am not sure if he would follow a list (as referenced in the article). We have talked about it- I asked him countless times to kiss me, touch me, hug me, and say I love you- without me having to ask- he has never been able to do it without me cueing. He does respond to me affectionately if I ask him.
Recently I am getting to the point where I can talk to my husband without getting angry/hostile; however it's because I'm really detached. He minimally responds to what I say. He has been getting mad at me for telling him I don't like something he's been doing.

Have you read the basic concepts?

Has your husband?

I started reading about marriage builders yesterday. My husband has not. I don't think he would like principle of joint agreement. He doesn't like his personal freedom being restricted. I asked my husband to write out his needs- the therapist had asked us both to- after he told my husband he didn't need to return. And its been almost 1 month with several reminders and he still hasn't.
I saw the letter about plan a and b- and I thought that letter sounded like my husband and plan a and b might be something I might eventually need to try.
Anyway I will talk to him about it.

Marriage Builders was very much designed to reach men. It is a comprehensive plan that appeals to the way most men think. I hope your husband takes a serious look at it, because the your marriage is headed for disaster as it is. He needs to understand that the program will benefit him, too. If he will not listen, then a separation is in your future.

My husbanf has said a few times if we gets divorced he wants nothing to do with me or the kids. Again related to issues with his parents divorce. He also has threatened me financially in arguements saying the car and phone aren't mine if I leave. Recently he told me he didnt want me to use his credit card if we aren't getting along. He has said the house isn't mine so I can leave in fight. I asked him what he thought was fair as far as dividing assets if we divorced and he said he wants everything he has worked for. Later he said he didn't even want ti think about that stuff and he didn't remember what he had said. I work part time now and he makes much more than me. Our kids are toddler/ preschool age. I have an interview for full time job next week. Cause I don't want to be in place where I don't feel financially insecure. My husband said if I hadn't been angry with him then he would have never not trusted me or said the things he said.

You husband can make his own choice about whether to have anything to do with you or the kids, but he won't have the choice to deprive you of marital assets, force you out of the home or fail to maintain the children. A judge will make a ruling about those issues if you divorce, and he will be forced to abide by that.

Does marriage builders address stuff like this? I understand thst I have rights by law. I am more upset by his words and attitude.

Marriage Builders is about building a marriage of the highest level of care - the exact opposite of your husband's attitude to you. The problem is that you need to get your husband's agreement to use the programme, and from everything you've said so far, he isn't interested in doing anything to address your unhappiness. He would rather the marriage end than do anything to change his behaviour.

Is that a fair assessment?

I feel like it is an accurate assessment but I haven't given up. I do have some part in pushing him away with anger and making my own relationship mistakes. I am willing toseparate aand divorce if necessary but I would like to try and make sure it is hopeless before doing those things.

Hi carrotsandpeas, welcome to Marriage Builders. Plan A and Plan B are not something you speak to him about directly. In Plan A you would avoid fights and do your best to meet his needs for a short period of time. If he does not agree to follow this program in that time, a separation would follow. That is Plan B.

There are a lot of troubling aspects to your marriage. First off, the problem of your anger and the fights. That absolutely has to end immediately. The other troubling aspect is the fact that he places his relationship with his mother over his marriage and that he won't use the policy of joint agreement because he likes his "personal freedom." Anything that comes before your marriage will eventually come between you.

Please read this article and come back and give your thoughts. When to Call It Quits (Part 1) By Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.

Hi Melodylane,

I just found plan A and B and I thought it might be helpful- since right now I feel there isn't a lot of hope in our situation.
I have had less issues with anger for the past few weeks- because I have been detaching and expecting much less from him. He thinks I have been too critical of him, and he can't do anything right with me.
In the past- that is accurate at times.
I am working on managing my own anger now- because it may be the main thing I can do to improve things.
As far as his mom goes- this is a really big problem.
His step dad has dementia and was placed in nursing home this last december. His mom and I had issues since my 1st child was born- but things got much worse as her husband's problems increased. She had many resources- I tried to help several times, but she mainly just complained that no one would help her. She wanted to leave her husband by himself to go on a cruise- and we all told her it wasn't a good idea. He had attacked her at night a few times prior to her cruise. So she hired 24/7 caregiver and then went on the cruise. i had already taken her to a memory care facility that said they would take him- she had the financial resources. Any way she left and my father in law attacked the caregiver and was bakeracted. DCF was called and my mother in law was on her cruise the entire time. My husband was irritated with the inconvenience of the situation ( his step dad called him 5x a night in the middle of the night). Anyway I had to speak to my father in laws doctor to get some medication for agitation on board. And then after thanksgiving my mother in law left my father in law alone (after this had happened) for several days. I was worried that father in law would end up dead and I went and checked on him while she was away. Then after my father in law was placed in a nursing home, my mother in law went away for 3 weeks. And I checked up on FIL while she was away. My husband doesn't appreciate the fact that I helped his mom, He blames me for getting involved. His mother has done other things- selfish things. And still my husband blames me for not letting her come to our home when I am here. My mother in law had been blaming me for keeping the kids away from her- to my husband. I had told her several times that our sitter would take the kids to her when she wanted, gave her the sitter's number. And my husband was taking the kids over almost every weekend. I stopped talking to her after she left her husband alone after thanksgiving.
Basically my husband refuses to see my point of view. He finds the most fault with me in regards to his mom. She has used me, been manipulative, acted very entitled. dumped on me. and he still sees it as me being in the wrong. I can't say or do anything to change his mom. over the past year, his mom has said multiple times she is dying. She does have some medical issues- and has been to the ER more than 10 x in the last 6 months, but no doctor has said she is dying. And her daughters stopped talking to her during this time.

We recently had a fight because he was upset about his mom/family on 4th of july. He was in a bad mood, and the kids were at my mom's for the night- so it was a special time for us. And his excuse for being cold to me was- he was upset about his mom/family. There have been multiple times in the past when his mom was upset with him and he shut down towards me because of it. It happened on thanksgiving- and he turned off to me and the kids. THe day after thanksgiving he layed on the sofa and cried- didn't even interact. that is when he said his mom was his "only family he had".
So I don't really know- where to start or if this situation is salvageable.

Also I wanted to ask- if you think getting this full time job is the right decision (if it is offered to me).
I love spending time with my kids and being there for them (almost 2 and 4 years old) so if i got full time job- I would be less available. And they would need to go into daycare at least part time. My husband does not help around the house- so I can see working full time would make getting things done more difficult.
But I feel like If I have a full time job then leaving /separation if needed would obviously be much easier. And being financially independent- even if I stayed in the marriage is a good idea- considering the attitude of my husband.
Do you think i should go for this job?

Have you looked for an affair? Does he have "good friends" of the opposite sex?

I would rather divorce than have an affair. I think about how nice it would be to be in a different type of relationship/ and some great sex- but I have no intention of acting on it. rather just get divorced and start over.
He doesn't really have any female friends. he is pretty busy with his work/ job. He seems depressed to me.

I'm saying have you looked to see if HE is having an affair. No one at MB would EVER recommend y oh have an affair.

Most affairs start in the workplace. So that is the first place to look.

Being a horrible person can make you depressed as can keeping a terrible secret like an affair.

He owns his own business and works with men. There are some females in the same officd. No I didn't snoop to look for an affair. Why do you ask?

Any time a spouse refuses to work on the marriage, or is cruel, callous and cold, you should suspect an affair, particularly when they blatantly wish to keep secrets.

What do you have access to-- accounts, social media, email, cell phone logs?