I haven't posted in a month. What abuse am I still doing?

Remark has done a lot of things.

It isn't true that Remark isn't doing anything he has been assigned. He has made an enormous number of mistakes, but to say he has not tried and hasn't done anything and hasn't tried to win her over is just incredibly cruel to do to a person in an abused marriage.

JDTD, I don't know how to explain it, and it took me *years* after my divorce to stop DJing my xh in my head. Do you listen to the radio show show? Those folks demonstrate the attitude by example. In a nutshell, that there is nothing defective about Remark, just he's doing things that make deposits or withdrawals, and right now it's huge withdrawals, and that's horribly sad, because your son deserves an intact family.

The whole point of the radio clip was that instead of getting exasperated in exasperating circumstances, to train yourself to stay calm. Then either the stage is set to negotiate for change, or that lady would give up, because here she's set the stage and she still sees no change.

I understand that it feels awful that folks here expect you to "go first" when Remark has demonstrated limited willingness to take consistent action.

But the thing is that you are going to take a pattern of making sacrifices out of exasperation with you, or you can take a quiet calm with you. I have an overactive giver, too, would have totally given the fleece for the phone bank, but I've calmed it way down, and the friends and family who stayed are my true friends.

I don't think you're "more wrong" than Remark or anything like that. His choices are so sad and have awful consequences for your son. I wish he could see how a man fights for his marriage. And I think you and your marriage are worth fighting for.

But I think you have room for change that would bring your life more freedom, too, from sacrifice and resentments.

Marcos, you posted this to coffeegirl on Remark's thread. I have a suggestion if you want to help. Remark was asked by the forum to keep a notebook and log his LBs and efforts. He was assigned by Steve to keep a similar log as well. Remark was unable to do either of those things. However, it sounds as if you could help him out with compiling that log. I think if anyone thinks Remark should call Steve again, then it would be helpful if Remark had that log so Steve had something to work with. It would help me too, (and maybe other posters like coffeegirl) since apparently I'm missing it and feel like he's doing nothing as well. You seem to have insight to some things that might serve Remark well for him to be able to put it on Steve's log, and perhaps with that tool in hand, he might be more inclined to have another call with him.

Interested?

And the anniversary dinner invite was two months ago, but I don't care how far back the list goes (the farther, the better.)

I thought I'd share something, but I'm also thankful for the anonymity of the internet because I'm somewhat embarrassed by it. And yet equally frustrated.

Last week, the office had a lunch and giveaway of the token items they get from vendors (mostly the Cardinal baseball team.) They set it up so that you got three tickets that you could put into any of a number of cups for a drawing for a particular item that you wanted. I put one in for a fleece jacket, one for something else I wanted, and one in for a power bank for a cell phone. I didn't want the cell bank for myself but thought Remark might because he seems to get quite stressed if his phone goes below about 90%. Anyway, I ended up winning the fleece jacket, which I was happy about because the office is always cold and it immediately felt good sitting in my lap. As the giveaway continued, my name was also pulled for the power bank but it was a one-win only option. I felt bad.

As the giveaway finished, the power bank ended up going to no one, and it and the other non-designated items were put in a pile. Then the remaining participants that didn't get something were given the option to pick something from the pile. The girl next to me was one of them. I told her that if she wanted the fleece, I would trade her if she picked the power bank, which she happily agreed.

Then, the CFO chimed in giving her grief and saying that SHE wanted the power bank, but the girl told her she had already bartered with ME. Eek! I'm a nobody at this company! The last thing I need is to be blacklisted by the CFO! If I had been smart, I would have brought it to her office after the lunch and left it on her desk, but I really wanted it for Remark.

Later on the way home, I started feeling really stupid. I jeopardized my position at work for a man that shows very little care for me at all, and one whom I'm in the process of divorcing. I tried to pawn it off on my son to give it to his dad for his birthday but he said he already gave him something. So I just gave it to him unceremoniously and was glad to be done with it.


Then, later in the week, I got to work and found tickets for Brad Paisley on my desk that I had apparently "won." ("won" = no one else in the department wanted them.) I'm not a country music fan so I passed them on. When I mentioned it to my son later, he was bummed and said I should have gotten them for him (nice idea, logistically no.) Later he mentioned it to his dad and said his dad went "ballistic" that I didn't get them. Who knew! In 21 years with the man, I've never heard him listen to anyone country besides Garth, and he's as much pop as country.

Anyway, today I walked into the office as they were giving away tickets for another country artist. I practically had to wrestle them away from another girl, making a point to tell everyone that my H "was very upset with me for not taking the last ones and I wasn't going to do that again!" I immediately texted Remark to let him know. He first asked me if I would go with him (Remark likes country, JD2D does not) but I said no. He then declined, saying he would rather go boating this weekend. So then I had to take the tickets back and felt like a fool for having made such a show of consideration for his stated interest only to be rejected anyway. I didn't give Remark the details of either of these.


This is not unusual for me. I feel like an idiot. I'm doing these things and it's said that I'm not showing extraordinary care, while Remark gives me his leftover pizza and is credited with doing "plan A."

Something is wrong with this picture.

Remark is capable of change,
But what have you given him to look forward to in the marriage?

I see a lot of punishing behavior if you ask me.

The whole mess of encouraging him to BUY a separate place and get ALL of his stuff out, and essentially negotiating the financials of a divorce has sent him the message that he will fail and that you WANTED him to be independent. So, in showing his support to you, and as a symbol of his acceptance of his past neglect, he went along with this separation disillusion of marital assets.

The purpose of the separation was for you two to DATE but you have refused. If I were your husband, I might feel duped.

If I were you, I would feel hurt and unwanted.

But you both habitually let your emotional reactions get in the way of positive behavior. When you are apart, you each find the goodwill to take a stab at positive gestures (pizza and tickets and forum checkins). However, when you come together the emotions fly from hope to pain. Approach avoidance conflict kicks in as the reality of your mutual lovebusters appears and both of you have not learned to calm down. So then disrespectful comparisons about a measly pizza offering vs. Job risking start happening. It goes downhill from there. But this has NOTHING TO DO WITH DEFECTIVE PEOPLE. This has to do with SKILLS which you both lack.

And remember, that just because Steve Harley is trying to teach Remark how to take responsibility and lead, doesn't mean that you are any percentage better at following the program. My GUESS is that he is trying to get Remark to show you positives so that you would be WILLING to try. Eta to try to follow the program.

Can you see how you and Remark are in the exact same position with the exact same dilemma? You are being asked to commit to behaviors which you both consider that the other one does not DESERVE, based on the PAST.

When you make decisions based on a negative PAST, there is no hope for the future.

Neither of you have been able to planA consistently. Without the infusion of positivity and fun aka UA time, the situation feels perpetually negative. No man looks forward to a future with a constantly critical wife instead of a relaxing time with his favorite recreational companion. And no woman falls in love without feeling like she is EVERYTHING to her man.

One question after reading about this incident - can you blame Remark for not apreciating the added value of the powerbank? You sacrificed to obtain a "free" powerbank, Remark just got a powerbank. If you had bought him a 20$ powerbank, you wouldn't have felt this way.

If your position at work is really jeopardized by the power bank incident, your work environment is to blame. Not Remark, because he didn't ask you to make that sacrifice.

In this example I see a lot of sacrifice. If you had kept the fleece shirt and bought Remark a stupid power bank, things would have been different. You wouldn't have been effected by the reaction of the CFO or the lack of appreciation for your sacrifices.

Are you a people pleaser? You say you should have given the powerbank (the one you traded the shirt you liked for!) to your CFO. I know there are a lot more examples when you did show extraordinary care, but in my opinion, this sacrifice isn't one of them.

You have told him: "I have no feelings about your independent lifestyle, as we are divorcing. (Marriage requires PoJA and this is not.)"

Why, then, do you complain that he is living independently and moving on?

It doesn't matter at this point what he tries to do -- you are hellbent on punishing him for every mistake. Until you commit to protecting him from yourself when he makes mistakes, then there really isn't much more he can do.

Remark COULD do what he needs to do, but you haven't given him any reason to. The future he faces is one with a very critical wife who punishes him every time he slips up. Nobody would be motivated by that.

The ball is really in your court. He can't go any further until you join him.

It DOES matter what he does, and I find it very counter-productive of you to contradict Steve's specific instruction.

I don't complain that he is living independently and moving on. I complain that he is living independently AND CLAIMING TO BE DOING EVERYTHING HE POSSIBLY CAN TO SAVE THE MARRIAGE.

It DOES matter what he does, and I find it very counter-productive of you to contradict Steve's specific instruction.

I don't complain that he is living independently and moving on. I complain that he is living independently AND CLAIMING TO BE DOING EVERYTHING HE POSSIBLY CAN TO SAVE THE MARRIAGE.

Steve Harley and Dr. Harley did not tell you and Remark to separate.