New to this forum. 2 months Post DDay. No contact finally happened today with no contact text that both my WH and I agreed on. Now he is much more open to EPs etc but I am not familiar enough. I purchased Dr Harley's books but they haven't arrived yet. In meantime could someone please oblige a Coles notes version on how these are agreed upon? Does the WS create a list and then I add to it or change it to reasonably meet my needs? Advice for broaching subject without it seeming like a jail sentence? thanks very much

Block potential communication with the lover (change email address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all internet social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse)
Account for time (betrayed spouse and unfaithful spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and phone numbers)
Account for money (betrayed spouse and unfaithful spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent)
Spend leisure time together
Change jobs and relocate, if necessary
Avoid overnight separation
Allow technical accountability
Expose the affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends

pinkstraws,

I am a FWW, it is my great hope that you and your husband will listen and heed my words...

First, I would like to reiterate what indiegirl told you -- your husband's affair was not unique or special just because OW was a therapist. Seriously, the OM in my situation said plenty of the same type things to me that the OW said to your husband -- that is just the standard M.O. of how affairs begin. Sure the phrasing may have been somewhat altered, but the goal was the same, and the end result was the same. So your husband was in a weakened state -- I'd say that most people that begin affairs are as well. Personally, I was so depressed at the time that I was very near suicide. But so what? There have been a lot of people who have been in various weakened states in their lives, and not all of them have committed adultery.

Why not?

1. Either they were people who didn't have EPs in place and an affair opportunity didn't arise at that time in their lives. Basically they had been skipping along in life playing Russian Roulette, and thus far had just gotten lucky. These are the kind of people who believe themselves to be immune to affairs "just because" of their beliefs, values, willpower, etc. They believe they don't need extraordinary precautions, because they would never cheat! These people are just affairs waiting to happen.

OR

2. They were people who recognized that being fallible human beings they had certain weaknesses and actively took steps to insure they never placed themselves in temptation's way -- no matter what was going on in their lives. They inherently understood that practicing risky behavior would eventually lead to catastrophe, so they consciously chose not to do that -- In other words, they practiced extraordinary precautions.

In 2005 I threw a grenade into our family by having an affair -- Today, it pains me greatly to look at the damage and destruction that I caused. I can't stand to think about the person I was then -- I can literally make myself sick if I think about the specifics of what I did. It kills me to think about what I put my husband through. Horrible, disgusting, painful memories. And yet, as sickened as I feel about all of that -- NONE of it is what prevents me from having another affair.

You know what does? The acknowledgement that I am human with weaknesses that MUST be protected. I MUST practice extraordinary precautions because those are the only things that keep my family and myself safe. Human willpower is a joke in the face of temptation. Any person that tells you they can practice risky behavior without being at risk is a liar. That is not possible.

About Facebook -- you are right in the fact that facebook didn't have the affair, your husband did. However, that being said, Facebook IS where the affair began and because of that it is TRIGGER CITY for your husband -- that means it is a very risky place for him -- being on Facebook for your husband is RISKY BEHAVIOR. Can people practice risky behavior without being at risk? OF COURSE NOT.

If he is a wise man he will acknowledge that -- maybe he's not at that point yet, but you should be -- open your eyes, pinkstraws.

Facebook is by no means a necessity.

I was on Facebook under my real name for about 2 weeks. I decided that one of my EPs would be not to have male friends there, and I didn't. I didn't know much about FB at the time at all. So I didn't consider the fact that since I'd gone to high school with OM and I was befriending girls I'd gone to high school with that I would eventually be able to see comments made by him, and that is exactly what happened. I freaked out -- total panic. I called 2 people -- My husband [Mr. W -- who, like me, was clueless about the ins and outs of facebook] and MelodyLane. Mel told me in no uncertain terms that I had to get off facebook immediately. I did exactly that.

Looking back, that should have been very obvious and automatic to me. I think it wasn't for two reasons, (1) because I really was freaked out, but (2) if I'm totally honest I had been having a good time catching up with my old pals there -- I was hoping Mel would tell me a way I could avoid doing what I knew I had to do! I'm so glad I had the good sense [because of all that I'd learned here at MB by that time] to call someone who would tell me the truth and hold me accountable. My marriage and family are worth so very much more to me than facebook could ever be.

pinkstraws, no matter how disgusted your husband is by OW now, he must understand that those feelings alone will not protect him or his family from the affair restarting if he has any sort of contact with her. Extraordinary precautions really are the only safe way to live -- for all of us.

Out of everything I've said in this post this is the most important -- it is THE essential "take-home-message":

THE ONLY REASON I WILL NOT HAVE AN AFFAIR IS BECAUSE I WILLINGLY PRACTICE EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS.

That isn't just true for me, by the way -- that is true for every person. Please think about this, pinkstraws.

Best,

Mrs. W

I've never been a wayward spouse. I've never wanted to be a wayward spouse. Much in the same way I've never wanted to be a nazi. When you're thinking of doing something you know is wrong why not just NOT do that thing and do the right thing? Is it really that hard for wayward spouses to do the right thing? I really truly don't get it. Someone elaborate, please.

If you were familiar with Dr Harley's work, you would know that we could all be wayward spouses. There is nothing special in the moral make-up of those of us who haven't been unfaithful. The reason that you have been faithful is not that you are made of better stuff than infidels. It is not that you couldn't; that you do not have it in you. You most certainly do have it in you.

We can all be attracted to other people. Your spouse is not the only person in the world that you could ever be attracted to. Because being attracted to people is a normal part of the human condition, we need to exercise extraordinary precautions, such as those discussed in this thread, so that we do not cross the boundaries that lead to infidelity.

Indeed; that is the whole point of the thread; to show how vital EPs are, given how hard it is to resist temptation to something we find appealing. If married people don't use EPs all the time, they will chat at length to a nice person from the opposite sex, go for drinks with them, spend other recreational time with them, and talk about their marriage and emotional issues with them, all the while allowing deposits in their love banks from those people. At some point, given enough of this kind of temptation, all of us would commit adultery.

None of us would commit adultery under certain circumstances - such as if our spouse could see what we were doing.

All of us would commit adultery at some point, under the right combination of circumstances; someone to whom we are very attracted, plus the easy opportunity of a secret second life.

Most people who have been unfaithful never had that as a lifestyle choice. They meant their vows when they said them. Your setting yourself up as someone who just cannot understand their mindsets - "you" are not like "them" - might make you feel worthy, but that's a misconception. We are all wired for affairs.

**EDIT**

The thing is that this site does not exist as an outlet for personal opinion; yours or anybody else's. Do you think you are enlightening us by spreading your personal wisdom?

I thought the purpose of a discussion forum is to discuss these things. We've all learned a lot in our life's journeys and I think it's helpful to discuss our opinions and experiences. I love the quote "Every person is my superior that I may learn from them." In the case of a person of faith who has strayed from the values of that faith, sometimes starting with a re-affirmation of faith can go along way to help them in their moral dilemma.