I read your reply to Viki under "Ultimatums". It sounds like there are some serious new developments in your life?<P>It peaked my interest because the same sort of thing happened to me. A lot of people say these are "rebound relationships" and not destined to last, and I will admit they are probably right. But what's a person to do? I met a great woman very shortly after separation. We have been very close ever since. I still don't know whether I did the right thing or not, but I sure felt a lot better about myself and the world. She has been very sympathetic, caring, and understanding towards me. It's almost like I ended up better off than I was before. Should I discontinue this relationship because the timing could be better? That doesn't seem to make sense.<P>At first we spent a lot of time talking about the failure of my marriage, difficulties I was having with my ex, what not, and also about her experiences in a failed long term relationship. It was great for both of us. She said lots of nice things to me, particularly how my ex must have gone insane because she thought I was a really great guy. That was nice to hear, certainly nothing like what I heard from my ex for the last few months of that relationships. My ex thought I might not have been the biggest scum out there, but I was in the running. I still don't even know what I did.<P>But we don't talk about that stuff all that much anymore, and it turns out we have lots of other things to talk about. Now we go dancing, hang out with friends, etc. We can spend 4 hours straight talking about work and life and not be done but it's time to go home.<P>Anyway, that's me. I was interested in your story because of what happened to me and I invite your comments.<P>For background, my divorce could be final December 5th, although it looks like it will be a couple of weeks late due to paper work and what not. It will be uncontested.<BR>

Hi Nonplused,<P>Wow, this is just so wierd!<P>My story,<P>Michele just got out of a long term relationship as well. [She was one of my ex girlfriends from about 13 years ago]. She was not married to her X, but living together for two or so years. I guess it felt like marriage to her.<P>She works at one of the rehab hospitals that we service and I have seen her in passing and had nice brief chats in the hall over the last 13 years. I don't get it, I have better relationships with the girls after we split up as opposed to when we were together! This goes for the first XW too. I guess that will be another post.<P>Our first "date" lasted six hours and we discussed our failed relationships and what we perceived to be the problems. What a strange topic for a date. It was fabulous.<BR>I took her home [her house] dropped her off and said we should get together again. No ackward moments of the good night kiss, hug, nothing like that. Just said see ya later.<P>We are NOT looking for a relationship and we agreed to that from the start. Just dating as "friends". No emotional or physical involvement. I'm not even close to being ready for that. I do not consider this to be a "rebound relationship" since I do not expect anything from her and she not from me. I would still very much like my W to come home one day and Michele knows that. <P>I was just sick and tired of being sick and tired. I refuse to sit home every night and wait for Val to come out of Fantasyland and be ready willing and able to work on the marriage. I just needed some female companionship. That is what Michele had to offer. NOTHING else. If you are comfortable with your friend too I would not consider getting out of it. If it is helping you cope with your situation go for it. I'm still legally and morally married to Val and WILL NOT cross the line. Hope you don't either.<P>I felt "dirty" the next morning for going out and having a good time. When Val called I told her I went out. She laughed and didn't believe me. She is still under the impression that if it doesn't work out with Brian [OM], Tim [me] will be home waiting for her. Wrong answer. Negative Ghost Rider pattern is full.<P>I'm not sure exactly what hit me lately, lightning perhaps, but, I am in just the greatest of moods and this happened before I started seeing M. I have not felt this happy for many years. I find myself almost constantly humming, cause I don't know the words. My standard answer when asked "How are you?" is "Couldn't be better!!!" And I MEAN it. I wish I knew the secret to my most recent return to life as I would share it with all of you here. I'M BACK!!!<P>I have mentally divorced my W and have accepted it fully that she will not return. This is not what I had hoped or prayed for but I must live in reality. One of us has to. <P>To finish the story, "and I lived happily ever after".<P>Take care of yourself Bud, you deserve it.<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic

Update on the update,<P>W just called and asked if there was any mail lying around here for her. I said yes and that I told her that last week and she decided not to pick it up! I told her this past Wednesday that her stuff is out on the front porch on the lower level of the wicker table. I figured she did not want to interact so it would be easiest this way. She doesn't have to see me, I don't have to see her. What else do you want? She said she will pick it up as I told her I am not the postman anymore and refuse to deliver it to her parents house. Too much of a flood of memories spent there for me. Her Mom always comes out to talk to me. I don't need that. <P>She asked me if I was still seeing my "friend". I answered truthfully because I can't stand people who lie. I saw her this Sunday. "Oh really". Brief exchange with her saying well if you saw her something must be going on. Told her of my "I'm not going to screw anyone until wer'e divorced" [OK you win, I was diplomatic, but that's what it came down to, you guys are tough]<BR>That I still have respect for the vows we agreed upon, even if she does not! <P>Sounds like Fantasyland is going belly up. That is ashame. I told her I still love her. I put a very nice card that pretty much says I'm sorry for for neglecting her and being a total d!ck for so long in the mail pile.<P>I'm still feeling like a million bucks that is tax free.<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic

Hi Medic and Nonplussed<P>I too have met someone that makes me feel like there is nothing wrong with me. My H of 18 years came home one day and said he was in love w/his secretary at work. He moved out the next day. We spent months in marriage counseling with him trying to figure out wether he wanted to be married. I found out later that he was busy seducing the secretary and lying every week in counseling. <P>I don't know if he is involved with the other woman or not. He bought a million dollar home and has obviously moved on. We are not divorced yet, there is alot of legal issues because of the money. We have come up with our own parenting plan that has been working quite well. I assume my divorce will be final by the end of the year. <P>I had finally accepted the fact that he isn't coming home. I started to get out and enjoy life and make new friends. I met my significant other through mutual friends we emailed for months, talked a litte bit on the phone and just really liked each other. He was coming out of an eight year relationship and has never been married or had children. Our stories were so similiar. We had both been betrayed and we both felt very strongly about that issue. We have been seeing each other for 4 months, I have know him for 8 mo. I don't know if this is a rebound or not. I am very content and settled around him. He is very different from my H. My h was very disrespectful to me and therefore I didn't like how I felt around him. This is different. We both have shared our stories and sometimes we do compare, but we have found that it is possible to be in a healthy relationship and have healthy boundries. I know that this is a marriage builder forum, and I tried to repair my marriage, but he wasn't willing to try. I hung in for as long as I could. But am now thankful that I am where I am. I don't know if this relationship is going to be the one for me, but at least I know that I can feel again. Just thought I would share.

Hey Limerick,<P>Good for you! I hope you really do respect the physical boundries. We ARE still married even if our S do not want to believe it. This is one rule I will not break. I have not "been" with a woman for almost a year and I figure another few months ain't gonna kill me.<P>I also tried everything under the sun to get W to try to reconsile. We went to two different marriage councelors. Neither one of them seemed to help. This last one told Val that it might be a good idea to get a PFA against me because he thought I might stalk her if we didn't get back together. <P>This guy talked to me for 22.5 minutes in our first and only joint meeting. He wanted to see W alone and help her figure "things" out.<P>I was a total basket case the first 6 months after discovery. I relived the last 11 years over and over in my little head. Couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, lost 15 lbs. I thought about "them" being together and what they were probably doing. Very unhealthy. Now, I can see the damage it did to me. I got my self respect back along with a bonus pack of my life back too!<P>I believe it was Lonestar that said the Harley principles work well only if both partners are intrested in fixing the marriage. It seems in both our cases WE are the only ones that want that right now.<P>I can only sit and wait until Val finally realizes that she wants to work on this too. Right now she's waffling BIG time. I used to like waffles too, I put lots of sugar on 'em, not anymore. <P>I will wait until the papers are ready to be signed. That will be about 1 year that we have been apart. I can do that, but I will not sit here alone every night wallowing in self pity, did that, have the tee shirt.<P>I can really say I'm doing GREAT. If Val would like to come home and build a marriage fabulous. If not, that's OK too. Either way I WILL survive and have most recently started enjoying my self again.<P>Take care Limerick and I hope that your dreams and wishes come true.<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic

Hi All!<BR>Interesting thread...perhaps not one for MB, but I am also where you are at. After two years of H telling me he wanted me and then continuing with OW, I finally went to Plan b and then to seeing an old friend , just as a friend, one I have known for 12 yrs. Perhaps we need to discuss this, but this may not be the forum for it. Email me @ Arabrider@msn.com if anyone wants to take this to email. Please know, all who read this, that I am sure we have/are still trying to save our marriages. <P>------------------<BR>Susan<P>

Hi Sue,<P>I know for me I would like nothing more than to get back together with my W and BUILD a marriage. Looking back it WAS really bad. We just had different ideas on what a marriage was. Poor comunication. We didn't know how to be a S. That's all different for me now! I can be a great H! Found the instruction manual here. You know how hard it is for guys to read instructions.<P>It also sounds to me that Nonplused and Limerick are also intrested in building their marriages. That we just aren't going to take this lying down anymore. We shouldn't have to sit in self pity while "they" decide what to do. I was a shell of my former self. I was starting to hate myself. Not anymore!<P>I took a vacation from my problems. Stepped back a few hundred feet to get a better view of what's going on. I got rid of the tunnel vision. The only thing I could focus on was getting Val back and not taking care of me.<P>I don't believe that if WE are starting to enjoy life in the terrible situations that we are in it is really a bad thing. Once again, I do have boundaries with my "friendship" that I will NOT cross. I am also fully aware that I was intimately involved in the destruction of my marriage.<P>I'm just taking care of me because I deserve it and so does everyone else here.<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic

Medic,<P>I am totally in the same place you are. I guess that you realize that if you obsess about their issues enough it can take over your life. I let go and let him have the freedom to choose the marriage or not. I am so sorry that he doesn't want it, but I know that I deserve to be loved. I am taking things very slowly with the new man in my life. If he feels uncomfortable with that then he isn't the guy for me. I want to be divorced before I go any where with anyone. I am in the process and am sure it will happen any time now. I was able to see alot of what I feel in your posts. Maybe it is just a process? You get to one phase and then move to the next. Both of my parents have passed away and it was a process getting over that too. I am happy, content and planning a new future. It feels really good to be doing that. Take care. Gerri

Hey Gerri,<P>With regards to the accept the fact that they are gone and will unlikely return I found the same advice on the "Divorce as friends" site. It has made it so much easier for me to take. If she comes back. GREAT. If not, I'm not disappointed in the least. Treat for the worst and hope for the best.<P>Its funny, when you say you see similarities in both of our situations. From what I read here it is appearant that there is also a common thread for the betrayers. The standard answers that they, big time denial, give stuff like that. I guess that we are just following the road that many have before us have traveled and that many after will as well. <P>I do not feel bad for what I am doing. I am NOT cheating or lying to the W. She knows that I too have a "friend", well maybe not the same kind of friend that she has but I am living. I am taking care of myself and keeping my pants on at the same time. Who could ask for anything more?<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic

Nonplused,<P>Great subject! I am so encouraged to hear about others who have moved on, & found that they really aren't so bad in the eyes of the opposite sex. <P>This whole infidelity thing (especially when a spouse just can't make a decision) just destroys so much of us; our self-esteem and sense of specialness is probably hit the hardest. I can see where it would be so therapeutic to find that we are still attractive to the opposite sex! For weeks, after I discovered the affair, I felt so bad about myself that I couldn't walk down the hall at work with my head up. I had trouble looking people in the eye. Like I did something wrong. Like I was worthless!!<P>I've been thinking lately, that I want my life back. Living in limbo is a perpetual hell. Now, don't get me wrong, I have no intention of jumping in the sack with anyone. But, like Medic, I would sure like to find a 'friend' to share my life with. And, I know next time around, I will be very cautious about getting seriously involved with someone before getting to know them very well.<P>So, after being out of the fast lane for 20 years, how does someone find a friend of the opposite sex these days?

Sidney, <P>Hey, you know, I had the same concerns about how to meet people and get back into a life again. For me, I think our friends are our best source. I had a good friend who had been divorced for 3 years. I had even set him up with a friend of mine when he was first single! I had never discussed my marriage problems with him, but when he heard about it from mutual friends, he did call me and offer support, because he had been there. But nothing happened, I did not even meet him for coffee or anything until we actually split up and filed. Then he asked me if I wanted company to go to a movie. And the rest is history!I am 45, and the bar scene is not for me. My firend, when he was first divorced, went to a church group called "Starting over single", which he said was a great group to meet people at. I think if we have followed Dr. H principles to save our marriage, as in Plan A, we learn how to attract people to us again, and know we are worthy people. I took two years to try to save my marriage...it was the best two years I spent, because now I can walk away without the regrets I may have had, and carry those issues into another relationship. <BR><P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

Susan,<P>Thanks so much for sharing. You are so right about taking the time needed to work through the issues. The best piece of advice my therapist gave me was to take my time, and don't make any hasty decisions. That way you have no regrets later on. And, I am finding that I am focusing on me and my problems during this time, which is probably the best thing that has come out of all of this mess. <P>I guess it's the lonliness that is the hardest thing to deal with. I'm going to just have to find the avenues necessary to once again connect with people. <P>Sounds like you made a wonderful new life for yourself. That is so reassuring!!!!

Hi Sue,<P>I looked at your profile and noticed a similarity in our stories. My h too wrote the break up letter or email in his case to the OW that said he was going to try and work on the marriage and come home to me. Right after he sent the mail and copied it to me, he sent me an email that said. I don't really think I can follow through with the plan I just sent until I get into counseling with you and figure out what it is I want. He had been in personal counseling for months. We had already been in marriage and sexual counseling for months. He got mad at the marriage counselor after she insisted he make a choice. So he stopped going there. <P>I guess many of of had to go through the waffling as medic called it. I like waffles too, but I was going insane through all of this. I waited another 4 months and finally filed for divorce. I hate that I was forced to go there but he bought a porshe and a expensive house, I felt like I should get out while there was anything there. It is still in process, but I have finally let go and have no expectations for the marriage to work. I waited, I did try. Good luck<P>Gerri