I would like to get peoples thoughts on the following:

Let�s say we have a single woman who for a myriad of reasons is in a friends with benefits relationship where the only emotional need she wants met is sex. The relationship lasts for about 5-months and they have sex 1-2 times a week.

Now let�s fast forward 10-years in the woman�s life. She�s now been married for 5-years to a different man and she is not meeting his needs for sex because he is not meeting her emotional needs.

Why was it so easy for her to have sex without emotional needs with someone she had no feelings for but so hard for her to have sex with her husband who she says she loves and can�t imagine life without if her emotional needs are not met? Is it wrong for the husband to view this as a double standard given he knows about the previous relationship?

I don't believe in this mythical creature.

That woman created that persona to make herself into the ultimate sexual fantasy for men who would not commit, because she could not find men who would commit. Her needs were for much more than sex - the same as with any woman.

True

it does not help you to try to force someone into a position she feels uncomforable with, because of bad decisions she has made in the past.
Why would you want to have a less than mediocre relationship? Be glad that her past relationships did not work out, or otherwise you would not have each other.

If you had a girlfriend in the past who would encourage you to spend all your money at the casino, should that be a reason for your wife to take all of your money and squander it in the casino too? And if you did not feel good about it, would that be a double standard?

Are you speaking about your wife?

Like most men here at some point, you believe you've found the thing that you can use to get your emotional needs met.

I'm here to tell you from experience that it does not work and is not sustainable. Try Marriage Builders instead, because it actually works. What you are doing and saying is disrespectful judgment and is incompatible with Marriage Builders, the plan that actually works.

Also, quit starting new threads all over the place. Stick to one thread so we can see your situation all together. And don't word it as a hypothetical.

Write Dr. Harley an email and see if you can go on the radio show. It'll help.

I should have looked at your posting history before I made my reply. I normally do this. I feel I've wasted my time on my previous response.

Why have you abandoned the thread on which I and others spent so much time trying to help you with your marriage, only to come back with this "hypothetical" question about a situation that might or might not be your own?

On your previous thread, you never really responded to the suggestions that I and others made to you. Those suggestions were about the strong possibility that your wife is having an affair, and also

You were not happy about following through on ANY of those suggestions; snooping for an affair, getting your wife's agreement to change jobs, and following the policy of UA (which could only be done if your wife were at home more than she is now). We put those suggestions to you several times, but you kept trying to change the topic back to your original question of the ranking of emotional needs. You never responded to our suggestions. Eventually you abandoned the thread.

How does it help you to do that, and then come back with a question about your wife's double standards?

It doesn't matter whether she is operating double standards over not having sex with you. Do you think that pointing out her double standards will make her want to have sex with you again? Will it help your marriage in any way?

What WILL help your marriage is to go back to the thread you abandoned and follow the MB advice that we gave you. There is no other MB solution to your problems. You need to

1. Snoop HARD, because there probably is an affair.

2. Talk to your wife about changing jobs so that she is at home every night.

3. Create UA time of at least 15 hours a week; more would be better for a couple with the serious problems that you face.

Thank you thus far for the feedback.

49% of the US population has had a FWB relationship at some pointe in their life and by no means am I condoning the practice of such relationships, I'm simply asking this question:

How would you feel if your spouse was denying you sex because of something that was missing in your relationship while knowing that they did not deny sex to others because the same thing was missing?

Can respond to our other posts, please? Asking how we would feel is getting you nowhere.

I don't do touchy feely. If you would like help with this problem, try the Marriage Builders plan, because it works and others don't.

Not getting sex feels terrible regardless of the cause and regardless of the past. Endlessly obsessing over the cause and obsessing over the past doesn't fix the problem.

Do you want to fix the problem, or continue feeling terrible?

What difference does it make whether he does, or does not, view this as a double standard? Will his view, one way or the other, create the conditions under which his wife is happy to have sex with him?

Dr. Harley addresses a lot of different realities that help answer your question. This is all stuff Dr. H talks about...
-hormones, like oxytocin, mask a lot of problems in a relationship but they wear off after a few months/1.5 years
-women can deal with a situation/sex without an intimate bond etc for a while but it isn't sustainable (your wife was only in this situation for 5 months...why did it end??) Women develop sexual aversions etc.
-The whole point of Marriage Builders is to build marriages that LAST. Think back to the first 5 months of your sexual relationship with your wife. What was that like?
-the FWB relationship you describe is a renters relationship. There are no demands on the other person to change etc. When it stops working for either person it ends. In your wife's case it ended after 5 months.
-Opposite-sex friends fill emotional needs. Period. FWB as I understand it is a no-commitment situation. That doesn't mean that no needs are being met. That's just ridiculous. Those two probably had fun together, etc. There may even have been a marked absence of Love Busting.
-or maybe it was a horrible, abusive relationship. Dr. Harley often talks about how unwise it is for women to start sleeping with someone because it bonds her to a man and clouds her judgement. (Oxytocin, again)
-I don't fault you for exploring this train of thought. The reality is frustrating. Women can't (for very long) have sex without specific conditions. The sooner you accept that the sooner you can start learning the skills to have a great marriage.

Imagine.
What if...

...The landlord of your million-dollar mansion says:
Why is this tenant dissatisfied, just because the roofs are leaky and the windows are broken?
Some years ago, he used to be a student and was happily living in a leaky, broken-windowed shed for a couple of months. He did not even have a real kitchen then.
Now, he has a beautiful view of the seaside in this mansion.
Why won't he just suck it up, like he did back then?


P.S. I expect your opinion on this post, thank you.

That situation only lasted 5 months because no other EN (or not enough) were met. It most certainly wouldn't have lasted 5 years.

If the husband expects his EN to be met, but doesn't meet her EN, what exactly is the definition of "double standard"?

Exactly.

"Hypothetically" I know a woman who had 1 (or 2...) completely regrettable FWB relationships in her younger days, I can assure you they were not the fun and games for her that she made them appear to be.

She was not mature enough to understand her own motives at the time, and she probably did have a higher sex drive back then, but today, she realizes how empty and desperate those relationships really were for her. She believes her actions came from a place of deep insecurity where she thought she had to be some always-ready-sex-kitten to keep a man's attention.

She would never abuse herself like that today and when she looks back on that time in her life she feels deep sadness for the person she was.

If her husband today expected her to meet his sexual needs but was not willing to meet her emotional needs, it would be clear he has no interest at all in having a relationship of extraordinary care with her.

If you have a couple where one partner was alcoholic or addicted to drugs years ago, would you say it is unfair for that partner to refuse to get drunk or do drugs with their spouse today since they did that in the past with someone else?

What if they were just unhealthy and a smoker in the past. Should they stop exercising and start smoking again if their spouse wants to sit on the couch eating and smoking in all their spare time?

What if they liquidated their retirement for some boyfriend when they were young and naive. Are they now obligated to do that again for their new spouse, sacrificing their financial security, since they stupidly did it for someone else years ago?

In my mind, a spouse who cares about their partner would never want them to do things that hurt themselves.

And a smart man who wants more sex would understand the way to get that is through showing his wife that he cares enough to try to meet her needs.

Some women receive their self worth and value from sex.
Some of them grow past it and others never do

To all those that provided input to my question I would like to say thank you. My wife and I are going through a very tough time and I have e-mailed Dr. Harley for help. The truth is my wife and I did do the emotional needs Questionnaire and as the husband, she scored me very high in not just meeting her top-5 emotional needs but all 10 listed. On the flip side of that coin, she is not meeting any of mine and its not because she does not want to, its because she is too exhausted to. She is a professed work-a-holic traveling 30% of the time. She lives to work where I work to love. She absolutely loves her job but our marriage takes a back seat to it. Now to comment on some of the great replies:

Coffee: You are right about the renters relationship, awesome point.

Happy: I had a hard time relating to your scenario because your talking about nouns and wants and I'm talking about emotions and needs, but thank you. I do live in a mansion and I would give it away in a second if it meant more quality time with my wife.

Goody: The double standard in my marriage is that I do meet my wife's needs, she just does not meet mine, and again its not for lack of want, its lack of energy, and its not just sex I'm talking about, its also affection, admiration, and intimate conversation which are lacking.

Jedi: My wife receives her self worth from her success first and family second. I don't think I or anyone but her can change this.

Anywife: Thank you so much for the comments and as a smart man, I do meet my wifes need, she just does not meet mine.

She may be having an affair through her job.

Why didn't you continue to explore solutions to the problem on your previous thread? Why did you come back with the supposedly hypothetical situation in this thread?

Hello Sugercane

I'm just so burned out with trying to make my marriage work and probably looking for justification to end it.

My wife and I plan on re-reviewing the questionnaire in a few weeks and I wrote a letter to Joyce Harley and she wants to talk to me more so between those two things I hope to get more help.