It feels like my marriage is falling apart.

My husband and I have been married for 10 years, together for 14. We have a 4 year old son and a 5 year old daughter.

To make a long story short, earlier this year, I found out about a close friendship my husband had with a female coworker that he had hidden from me. He insisted it was innocent, but when I asked to see e-mails between the 2 of them, he deleted something. I accused him of being involved in an emotional affair which he denied. We went to speak with a mentor friend from church who advised my husband to put some distance between himself and the coworker in order to rebuild trust that had been lost in our marriage. He agreed. I found out a month later that he had actually lied about agreeing and had gotten to the point where they told each other that they loved each other. He finally got it at that time that he had done wrong. We started rebuilding our marriage again. A month after some counselling and working on things, he finally admitted that he had kissed her once. I wanted to leave at that point, but our mentor encouraged me to stay and work things out although all my instincts were screaming at me to get out.

Anyway, I say all this to give you some background. These past 6 months have been spent trying to get past what happened. By God's grace, I felt like I at least was making progress. I identified where I had made mistakes and I'm taking responsibility and trying to change. The difficulty is that my husband seems to only say the right words but his actions don't match up. I have asked (gently, not demanded) for access to his e-mails, phone, etc. Instead, he put passwords on everything and refuses to provide access. However, he keeps insisting that he's hiding nothing and that he loves me and is committed to our marriage, etc. etc.

We are now at the point where I am suddenly the "bad guy" in our relationship somehow. He tells me that I'm controlling, manipulative and judgmental. He wants his freedom to be his own man, think his own thoughts and do what he wants (his words). Our communication is practically down to 0, there is no openness or transparency. I get "I don't want to talk about it". Today when he was upset about something (he wouldn't tell me what), I offered to pray with him before leaving for work. He refused and said "just go".

When he says I'm controlling, the only thing I can think of is that I'm an extrovert and outspoken while he is an introvert and tends to be more laid back. So over the years I've not been afraid to speak my thoughts, thinking that he had been doing the same. But I'm coming to understand that he actually has just been "giving in" to avoid "being in trouble". Anyway this is one thing I have been trying to change about myself these past few months... giving him space and time to process his thoughts etc., shutting up when I've wanted to speak... to the point that I'm constantly on eggshells now, not wanting to say or do anything that will push him away. Since understanding that he has actually internalized a lot of his true thoughts and that he hasn't spoken up about a lot of things for the sake of not getting into trouble or keeping the peace, I'm trying to show him that I'm a safe person for him to be real with.

But he really doesn't seem to be interested in doing his part to fix everything. I can only assume that now he feels he is "standing up to me" by refusing to be "controlled" when I ask for gestures that would help rebuild trust and everything else that's been lost in our marriage. Nothing seems to be working. It just seems like he wants his independence from me and doesn't enjoy being with me. Everything I do actually just seems to annoy him more for some reason.

Anyway, I really just wanted to share and see if anyone has any advice on what I can do next. Been reading MB for a while and it does seem like even though he says he still loves me, that the love is gone.

Hello, and welcome to Marriage Builders.

Does your husband still work with this co-worker?

Welcome to MB. I am sorry to tell you that your husband is in a full fledged PA that has not ended. Please stop listening to your 'mentor' who clearly has no idea how to deal with an affair, and follow Dr Harley's plan which he has created after 40 years of experience dealing with affairs.

Your first order of business is to snoop and get confirmation of your H's affair. Do not confront him or tell him that you are suspicious, just simply snoop and find out the facts.

Hi Mamba, welcome to Marriage Builders. Unfornately, your problem is the not "communication" but an active affair. The affair becomes more and more entrenched every day that he sees his girlfriend. This is like asking the crack head to stop smoking crack while he goes to the crack house every day.

This is why his affair has not ended and it is why your marriage cannot possibly recover under these conditions. He goes to work to SEE his OW every day so the affair is not possibly over.

The only possible way you can save your marriage is if he leaves that job and the affair is exposed. But you have to act quickly and decisively. This affair has gone on for so long that it will be very hard to bust up.

Your best bet in busting it up is exposing the affair wide and far using the tactics on the exposure thread in my signature. I would then DEMAND that he leave that job immediately and follow the steps outlined in this checklist. That is your only hope. The longer you let this go on, the harder it will be to ever save your marriage. You need to act and decisively.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

I am sure your friend means well, but he has no idea what he is doing. Would he tell a crack head to continue to visit the crack house every day but "put some distance between himself and the crack" while in the crack house? Would he give the same advice to an alcoholic on his way into the bar?

Do you see how insane that sounds?

You would be insane to "trust" your husband under those conditions.

Your WH would not have to put passwords on everything if he had nothing to hide. That does not make sense. He is refusing to give you access because he is fully engaged in an affair.

People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.

The Controlling that he is referring to, is the fact that you are interrupting his Secret Second Life.

Are you familiar with cell phone spyware

Read the sub-forum called, Operation Investigate to find out more.

Also, get a Digital Voice Activated Recorder or two.

Place one under his Drivers Seat of his vehicle, secured with velcro straps.

Place the other one someplace in the home where he seems to go for privacy, (Secrecy).

Keep posting and Follow Melody Lanes Instructions, which come from Dr. Harley himself.

LTL

That's the thing... I found a way to monitor the computer. I felt I had to as soon as he threw all sorts of passwords on it. I've seen no sign of any continued relationship with her. He eventually left his job and found a new one but this was when he was good and ready and I had given up begging for him to leave. I haven't seen any sign of an affair with her or anyone else. I have seen some sporadic porn though, but nothing to indicate another woman. So I really don't know what to think.

I would put a VAR (voice activated recorder) in his car.

Do you have access to his phone? Can you install spyware on his phone?

Does he have a seperate computer at work? If yes do you have access to it?

You have already confronted him about his affair multiple times, so he has taken it further underground. If you don't see anything on his computer (home? Tablet?) then that just means he is not using that method of communication with her.

But you can't possibly know what he is doing if he has everything on lockdown. I assure you that an innocent person would never do that because seeing his texts, phone logs would exonerate him. People who have nothing to hide, don't hide.

What kind of phone does he have?

Well, now this is interesting. He has asked me to come and meet the other woman and her husband. He says he has things he wants to say to all of us and that I will be happy with the outcome. I don't know what to think.

I think thats fine, however, you need to take control here. Right now you are in the back seat with a drunk driver driving the car. If you want your marriage to recover you are going to have to get in the drivers seat.

I would go see what he wants and then give him your conditions. If he won't meet these conditions, you need to pack his bags and ask him to leave. These points are not negotiable:

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

My husband was involved with another woman from work and we're currently dealing with the fallout from that. I started another thread with some more details, but my question is now this... he doesn't understand why he must completely cut her out of his life as this wasn't a scenario of him having a "traditional affair" (his words). They were close friends for a long time, then they kissed once. (This is all according to him). So he doesn't want to lose the friendship with her and claims the friendship can and should be saved and that asking for him to say goodbye forever is wrong.

Of course, I don't buy his rationalizations. I have explained why and he still doesn't get it. I'm at the end of my rope with him now but I want to give it one last attempt at explaining before ending things once and for all. I still love him, we have 2 kids, we've been together for 10+ years, etc. etc. But I can't have the OW in his life as I'm sure you all understand. I just don't know how to convey that to him in such a way that he'll understand and agree. Suggestions?

Pleas stay on one thread. You make understanding the situation more difficult when you start a new one.

Threads merged. Please stay on one thread.

Oops... good point. Thanks for merging the threads for me.

Done.

1. What have you done from the checklist Mel gave you?

2. You now know it was a physical affair ( kissing). That is a traditional affair. And he is super foggy if he said that to your face.

PS if he works with her or has any contact, the affair is on still. It doesn't matter if he understands at this point, he has to do it THIS WEEK or you should ask him to leave.

Have you exposed at his work yet?