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We already are cutting back on extras. There is NO extra at all. We don't go shopping, don't stop and get coffee each morning, don't have a gym membership. We already lowered our cable and phone bills recently and even moved our kids to a cheaper daycare. Plus if I were to leave he would never cut back on anything, he would say that was my choice....etc.

I mentioned him being willing to talk to them on the radio-show. He did not agree, but was not as reluctant as I thought he would be. I am going to try to convince him to go on, and maybe that would help give us a jump start. He is thinking that doing this program is my way of controlling him, and I am trying to convince him that it would benefit him as well.

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Originally Posted By: JBKT16
You're right I guess I am back to square one. I honestly thought we were making some progress, and he was taking my complaints. But at this point he seems sick of dealing with it.

As for the article, I had read it, and I just re-read it....

My first thoughts are that it seems like it could be very successful, and I know it is. I don't want it to come to that, I think it would be devastating for our kids(I know that having a marriage that is like this is hurtful to the kids as well).

Even if I came to the conclusion that it was my only option, I don't think there is anyway I could support myself, and there is no way he would be pleasant about money. We are barely getting by now, many of the bills are in my name, I already work in one of the highest paying districts, so there is no "finding a higher paying job". How does a spouse go about this when they can't afford to? Since the kids are with me majority of the time, I would be feeding and taking care of three people, not just one, like he would be.


Groundhog day. crazy


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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He would cut back if a judge ordered support payments.

Please don't think I'm judging you because many people are in the situation but...are y'all house poor? From what you describe, you have a decent income but no money for babysitters or dates so I wonder if that's an issue.

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I think Dr. harley addresses budgets in HNHN for Parents.

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Originally Posted By: apples123
He would cut back if a judge ordered support payments.

Please don't think I'm judging you because many people are in the situation but...are y'all house poor? From what you describe, you have a decent income but no money for babysitters or dates so I wonder if that's an issue.


I understand why you would ask that. You are right we have decent jobs and little to show for it. But the answer to your question is no, I don't believe we are house poor. Our mortgage is 16% of our monthly income. I think I have always heard that it should be kept under 25%??

I would say we are "medical bill / debt poor". We have had a lot of out of the ordinary things thrown at us financially. Yes we could have made some better decisions along the way, but we have also gone through a lot.

We spent thousands and thousands of dollars trying to have kids in the first place, 7 ivf's and 3 miscarriages later, we have two wonderful kids. Should we have taken out so much trying to have kids, maybe not, but we wouldn't trade it for anything.

Then when my little one turned one he began having some health issues. He is two and a half now, two surgeries later, two GI's, and an immunologist and we still don't really have solid answers. In the middle of all this, I started having health issues.... Nothing too serious but the cost added up quick.

Sorry for the long explanation, I know people think I am just making excuses and I know everyone has their issues. But we are honestly faces some challenges that not everyone had to endure financially.

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Originally Posted By: apples123
He would cut back if a judge ordered support payments.

Please don't think I'm judging you because many people are in the situation but...are y'all house poor? From what you describe, you have a decent income but no money for babysitters or dates so I wonder if that's an issue.


A judge can get involved even if it is just a "seperation"? Sorry for the ignorance.

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Melody -- I'm sorry you feel the need to be negative toward me. I honestly am looking for support. I don't understand what I am doing so wrong here?

At first I was not willing to ask him to speak with Dr H because I thought he would refuse and it would just lead to yet another fight. Since we were already not getting along, I threw it out there and was surprised not to get a "hell no". I understand that this was your advice initially, but I honestly thought he would never do it.

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Originally Posted By: JBKT16
Melody -- I'm sorry you feel the need to be negative toward me. I honestly am looking for support. I don't understand what I am doing so wrong here?

At first I was not willing to ask him to speak with Dr H because I thought he would refuse and it would just lead to yet another fight. Since we were already not getting along, I threw it out there and was surprised not to get a "hell no". I understand that this was your advice initially, but I honestly thought he would never do it.


I think it is very negative to ask the same question over and over again and then ignore the answers over and over again. Like Sugarcane noted, you are right back to where you started. You spend enormous time coming up with "reasons" you can't do anything. If you spent that time focusing on solutions, you would probably be recovered.

Just go back and re-read your threads. All of your questions have been answered.

Quote:
At first I was not willing to ask him to speak with Dr H because I thought he would refuse and it would just lead to yet another fight. Since we were already not getting along, I threw it out there and was surprised not to get a "hell no". I understand that this was your advice initially, but I honestly thought he would never do it.


You are "not willing" to do almost everything we have advised.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: JBKT16
Melody -- I'm sorry you feel the need to be negative toward me. I honestly am looking for support. I don't understand what I am doing so wrong here?

At first I was not willing to ask him to speak with Dr H because I thought he would refuse and it would just lead to yet another fight. Since we were already not getting along, I threw it out there and was surprised not to get a "hell no". I understand that this was your advice initially, but I honestly thought he would never do it.


I think it is very negative to ask the same question over and over again and then ignore the answers over and over again. Like Sugarcane noted, you are right back to where you started. You spend enormous time coming up with "reasons" you can't do anything. If you spent that time focusing on solutions, you would probably be recovered.

Just go back and re-read your threads. All of your questions have been answered.

Quote:
At first I was not willing to ask him to speak with Dr H because I thought he would refuse and it would just lead to yet another fight. Since we were already not getting along, I threw it out there and was surprised not to get a "hell no". I understand that this was your advice initially, but I honestly thought he would never do it.


You are "not willing" to do almost everything we have advised.


I'm sorry you feel like I am asking the same questions. I didn't think asking how you could do a separation with limited finances was something I had asked about before. I am willing to try and I thought we were making progress.... I'm sure everyone doesn't succeed immediately without some setbacks. Y'all mentioned getting him to talk to the Dr, that is my goal now....to convince him to do that.

The only thing that I don't think anyone is understanding is that we really are cut back on finances, there is not "extra money" that can just be found with a few lifestyle changes.

I will no longer ask questions here if I am wasting everyone's time. I am serious about changing and I have already made a lot of changes in myself, but obviously I can't do it on my own. This board has opened my eyes to a lot about what I needed to change, as well as what he needs to and I appreciate that. I can't talk to my family about this, I don't have any friends I can talk to, sometimes I just feel isolated, so I guess this has been my way of venting....

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Originally Posted By: JBKT16
[I'm sorry you feel like I am asking the same questions. I didn't think asking how you could do a separation with limited finances was something I had asked about before. I am willing to try and I thought we were making progress.... I'm sure everyone doesn't succeed immediately without some setbacks. Y'all mentioned getting him to talk to the Dr, that is my goal now....to convince him to do that.


What I see you doing is dismissing the advice and telling us you can't or won't do it for various reasons instead of looking for solutions. No one is saying it is easy to separate, but it will always be impossible as long as you refuse to do it. The goal of separation is to save your marriage from the current path it is on: divorce.

Quote:
I will no longer ask questions here if I am wasting everyone's time. I am serious about changing and I have already made a lot of changes in myself, but obviously I can't do it on my own. This board has opened my eyes to a lot about what I needed to change, as well as what he needs to and I appreciate that. I can't talk to my family about this, I don't have any friends I can talk to, sometimes I just feel isolated, so I guess this has been my way of venting....


Venting won't solve anything. But looking for solutions WILL.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: JBKT16
[I'm sorry you feel like I am asking the same questions. I didn't think asking how you could do a separation with limited finances was something I had asked about before. I am willing to try and I thought we were making progress.... I'm sure everyone doesn't succeed immediately without some setbacks. Y'all mentioned getting him to talk to the Dr, that is my goal now....to convince him to do that.


What I see you doing is dismissing the advice and telling us you can't or won't do it for various reasons instead of looking for solutions. No one is saying it is easy to separate, but it will always be impossible as long as you refuse to do it. The goal of separation is to save your marriage from the current path it is on: divorce.

Quote:
I will no longer ask questions here if I am wasting everyone's time. I am serious about changing and I have already made a lot of changes in myself, but obviously I can't do it on my own. This board has opened my eyes to a lot about what I needed to change, as well as what he needs to and I appreciate that. I can't talk to my family about this, I don't have any friends I can talk to, sometimes I just feel isolated, so I guess this has been my way of venting....


Venting won't solve anything. But looking for solutions WILL.


I agree, that if nothing changes seperation will be my only choice. If we didn't have kids, I would already be to that point. But I am not ready to give up on him possibly making the changes needed.

I agree that I need to be looking for solutions. If he were to get on board with the program 100% I know it could save us, before separation. Now I just need to get him to talk to Dr H and pray he can convince him to participate fully.

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Originally Posted By: JBKT16
We already are cutting back on extras. There is NO extra at all. We don't go shopping, don't stop and get coffee each morning, don't have a gym membership. We already lowered our cable and phone bills recently and even moved our kids to a cheaper daycare. Plus if I were to leave he would never cut back on anything, he would say that was my choice....etc.

If you think you are unhappy now, you can't even imagine how much worse it can get with time. As far as finances in the case of a separation, FIND A WAY. Yes you should expect him to pay and go to the full extent of the legal process to make him pay, but make a plan for him not to pay. Get a second job, find someone that can trade babysitting with you, do whatever it takes to FIND A WAY! I have a Masters Degree and a good job that doesn't pay squat so while I've been diligently looking for another job (in and out of the area) that pays more, I've sucked it up and worked a part time job anywhere from 20-40 hours a week. Does it suck? YES Is it better than being with my controlling, manipulating, and cheating H that wasn't willing to follow through with the MB Program...ABSOULTELY!!!!!

There are NO EXCUSES...only answers. Once again I tell you to be strong and...FIND A WAY!


FS of 27yrs
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DDay 11/2013
Began MB Seminar 7/2014
H quit MB Seminar 10/2014
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PB 12/18/2014
D 07/29/2015
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Originally Posted By: JBKT16
[

I agree, that if nothing changes seperation will be my only choice. If we didn't have kids, I would already be to that point. But I am not ready to give up on him possibly making the changes needed.


We are not asking you to "give up on him" though. You have made that characterization throughout your threads and that is why you are STUCK here in the same place. Your way is the path to divorce. We are trying to help you avoid that.

Quote:
I agree that I need to be looking for solutions. If he were to get on board with the program 100% I know it could save us, before separation. Now I just need to get him to talk to Dr H and pray he can convince him to participate fully.


Separation could very likely save this. Keep that in mind. You have been trying for a very long time to get your husband on board, however part of the reason you can't do that is because *YOU* are not on board.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Was that your email on the show today?

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I am back again. Have been wanting / needing help for a while, but couldn't really get on my computer during the summer. Now I am back at school and things are spinning out of control.

I really need help with our situation, not just general help....

I know y'all were to the point of not wanting to help me anymore. But I really need advice.

The Summer was ok for us, not great, but could have been much worse. Then we had to go back to school.... I am at the point where my physical and mental health is really suffering. My heart has been doing really weird things when the stress level gets high with him. My neck and shoulders are killing me constantly, and almost every time we interact I leave with knots in my stomach.

I'm not sure what exactly I need to ask, but I am to the point that I realize separation is almost inevitable. I hate to even admit it, but if we continue down the path we are headed it is the only option. I don't want to get divorced, I just want the stress and chaos to stop.

I need help understand how to handle him in the meantime and how to make a separation work for us specifically. Since we have to little ones, my main concern is them. Although the environment they are living in now is not as healthy as it should be, my oldest would be devastated if we were all apart.

I can't

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Sorry, I wasn't done with that post. Last night I felt like I needed to just get out, now. (With no plan in place). But it seems like it would be better if I had a plan, and in the meantime I could work on my side of things and pray that everything gets better.

What I don't know is how to handle everything in the meantime. It is so bad right now, not only are we fighting pretty much every night, we are fighting at work as well (we are teachers at the same school). We just happened to have the same conference this year, which means we are available to argue with each-other more than we typically would be. I feel like it is nearly impossible to do my job well, although I am trying to forget everything while I am teaching and do a good job for the students, it is nearly impossible.

How should I handle the fact that we work together? How do I handle all the drama and try to keep the peace while I am figuring out what to do?

I know this is getting long, but I have to share some other the situations that have occurred. Maybe y'all can share how I should have / could handle them.

And by the way, at times, we are working hard on things and everything goes great (we actually had a great weekend just this past weekend), but Monday all hell broke loose again.

So, although we had a wonderful weekend, on Monday he came down to my room first thing 2nd period (which is our conference) I honestly thought he was coming to be nice since we had a great weekend. But I guess he was coming because he was feeling insecure, eventually that came out and I tried to reassure him. He told me I should have known and it didn't mean anything if he had to prompt me. There are times I can tell he is beginning to feel that way, and I do try to re-assure him, but how am I suppose to know every-time he is feeling this way, especially when there were no circumstances to warrant it???? Even through this, we were stilling feeling great with each other because of the weekend.

A little later that day he emailed me (while I was teaching my students), I noticed it about 20 minutes later and responded immediately. To be honest, I didn't think much of it and was still feeling happy. A few minutes later (during the passing period) I was standing in the hall and he comes walking up, leans over to whisper in my ear (I thought he was going to say something nice or goofy) but instead he says "if you are not going to reply in a timely fashion do NOT email me". And he just walked away. My heart sunk into my stomach. First off, I didn't email him, I replied to him, and second how in the world does he expect me to do my job but be available to instantly answer his email?? He doesn't do this, in fact he takes hours to respond to me via email. When I got back on my email a bit later I noticed that he had said "sorry to interrupt you" as soon as I had replied. This was not a sincere comment, basically he was implying that I was doing something wrong or I would be answering him.

This scenario led to us completely spinning out of control. Huge fights about everything every since. Now the last couple of days he is back to acting like I can't even take a shower. If I take a shower I must be getting clean for someone. He says that I am not showing him I love him and that it makes his insecurities worse, but how do you show someone you love them that won't even allow you to take a shower, that calls you an idiot and a slut???!!

I have learned a lot from y'all and have done a lot of self reflection. I understand that I was not as sensitive about his feelings as I should have been, even though I did care, I think the pain he was causing me over these feelings is all I could see at the time. Even though I haven't been on the board I have still been learning, just not talking here.

I would love some advice in how to plan for a separation and what to do in the meantime. We have family around that we could potentially stay with, but there is no way we could afford two places. What I have been thinking is that the kids should get to stay put and we could alternate being there. Has anyone heard of doing this? I just want the kids lives to be as normal as possible. But I know he will NOT agree to anything I suggest, and won't it take two of us to make it work? Also, what do I do in the meantime? I would love to think that everything could change before I actually move out, but I know that is wishful thinking.

At what point does his insecurity become more than that? When is it something that I should understand he will always treat me poorly over? Is there a way that he will ever learn to handle these feelings he gets? Thanks again for any help y'all will offer.

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First of all, you really are in danger. You are in an abusive marriage.
Have you ever heard of the abuse cycles. Everything is great "your weekend" followed by further abuse. then good, then bad.... and on and on.

You need to seperate now. YOu do NOT ask him. He has nothing to do with it.

You just leave with the kids to your families. I think it is safer with others watching over yall. You have your family trade off the kids if he wants to see them but never give them the kids if he is angry. Tell you family now. Have you told them?

You then give him a letter detailing what it will take for the two of you to reconcile.

1. Anger management with a behavioral therapist.
2. Do not contact you or see you in school hours.

Nothing else on earth can be dealt with until he gets anger under control and stops abusing you. Nothing! It is step on in MB!

I would file for an emergency transfer at work or something to get away from him. You guys can't keep working together. Think, what can you do?

I would not speak to him, see him etc until he agree's to do what it takes and then ACTUALLY does it.

stop fighting....if he starts.... leave! Walk away, do not engage/do not even speak at all.... just leave. if he won't stop, let you walk away, or leave-call the cops. I am serious. CALL the police.
I am an objective outsider and his behavior is dangerous. I think you have been in it so long that you can't see how bad it is.
he is not insecure... he is abusive.

Plan to leave this weekend. As soon as possible. Do not talk to him about it. Do not ask him.... just do it.
Do not think you can keep the kids in the house and trade. Huge steps need to be taken here.

If he goes ballistic, file a restraining order.
If he goes all soft and sweet-don't believe it. Actions counts.... words don't.
Don't give up till he has been in AM for at least 2 weeks and is following your wishes such as no contact.

This will actually give him a chance to step up to the plate, get into AM and hopefully save the marriage. This gives you the best shot. Staying and taking it only makes it worse every single day.


BW-3 Kids
Sep:2014
Divorced

"I was not delivered unto this world in defeat, nor does failure course in my veins. I am not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion and I refuse to talk, to walk, to sleep with the sheep. I will hear not those who weep and complain, for their disease is contagious. Let them join the sheep. The slaughterhouse of failure is not my destiny.
I will persist until I succeed." Og Mandino
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Originally Posted By: JBKT16
I would love some advice in how to plan for a separation and what to do in the meantime. We have family around that we could potentially stay with, but there is no way we could afford two places. What I have been thinking is that the kids should get to stay put and we could alternate being there. Has anyone heard of doing this? I just want the kids lives to be as normal as possible. But I know he will NOT agree to anything I suggest, and won't it take two of us to make it work? Also, what do I do in the meantime? I would love to think that everything could change before I actually move out, but I know that is wishful thinking.


JBK, I agree with Elaina, I would plan to move in with your family with your children and start preparing for a longer term separation. I would also look into getting transferred to another school. Your husband is very abusive and the solution is to get away from him until he makes some radical changes.

What has caused his insecurity? What makes him insecure? Have you ever had an affair? Is there something you are doing or have done that has made him so insecure?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: Elaina7
he is not insecure... he is abusive.


This part is puzzling to me. He is certainly USING his supposed "insecurity" to abuse her, but I don't understand how this started.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: JBKT16
Originally Posted By: mrEureka
[quote=JBKT16]I guess I am wanting to know how to help encourage him to get on board. What to do when he thinks the ideas are crazy?!

I do feel neglected, especially of quality time together, but I think he honestly believes that there just isn't time/ money / etc to be able to spend a lot of time together. I don't believe he is conciously trying to make us suffer. Once we are home together he is exhausted and sometimes I am too.

What is hurting me even more than not spending the time together is the fact that he constantly feels threatened in our marriage and the way he handles it is destroying me. I have never cheated on him, never acted flirtatious, do not have male friends.... All the things that I would think would make someone feel so "unsafe" in a marriage, but no matter what I did and I have tried it all. He always feels like I am eventually going to cheat on him. He has said so many horrible things about me because of these feelings and majority of our problems stem from this.

Any advice??


Here is the beginning... She says she has followed good boundaries....

So? Are you thinking He is having affairs or do you have another idea?

I hope you are ok J..... I know what was said wasn't easy to read- but I hope you let it sink in. I will be praying for you!


BW-3 Kids
Sep:2014
Divorced

"I was not delivered unto this world in defeat, nor does failure course in my veins. I am not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion and I refuse to talk, to walk, to sleep with the sheep. I will hear not those who weep and complain, for their disease is contagious. Let them join the sheep. The slaughterhouse of failure is not my destiny.
I will persist until I succeed." Og Mandino
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