He has actually stopped the "outburst". I'm not saying we are getting along all the time, we are having great days, mixed in with a lot of little disagreements. But he is not calling me horrible names, or throwing things or any of the things that were happening before the show.

But the roller-coaster ride is what is so hard for me. Even though the disagreements are small, it is just so hard being great and then arguing and then starting it all over again. I know it will take time to get where we need to be, but I just want to go a few days, even a week without bickering, and going back and forth between good and bad.

It has not been long enough since his last outburst to say that. His angry outbursts cannot be considered eliminated yet.

I agree that there are not necessarily permanently eliminated, but this is a great step forward for him. I have had a hard time controlling myself, I have done better about not yelling back, now that he is calm, but he says I am the one having the outburst now, because I have used foul language and have raised my voice some, but nothing like I used to when he was being so hateful toward me. I feel like this all is driving me crazy, the ups and downs.... What do I do to avoid being the one who is getting angry? This is NOT my nature, it only came about throughout the years and this being "normal" for us.

1. Shut up
2. Walk away

I was doing really really good with that for a while. That's when things really got bad between us. You're right though, I have to make sure I am not the one behaving like that!

How has he suddenly learned to control his anger? Has he completed anger management?

In the call it sounded like you were quite abusive and had a major issue with angry outbursts too.

I don't know how he has done it....in fact that has been hard for me to wrap my brain around. No, he has not completed anger managment. I think more than anything, he just realized that he didn't want to jeopardize his marriage anymore.

If it was so easy for him all along, why in the world has it been so bad for so long??? I am glad for the efforts, but it does feel hurtful that he could just stop that easy. His feelings have not really changed, and the getting upset with me has not necessarily changed, he is just not blowing up over it.

As for me....I never was the kind of person to blow up at all. In fact I was a very happy, non-confrontational person when we married. I wanted nothing but to help us have a good marriage. I guess I was a bit ignorant in thinking that just appeasing him and trying to manage the things that were happening would some how make the marriage better. Looking back I know it didn't.

Throughout the years of hearing how much of a slut I was and being told disgusting things about myself (none of which were true), I eventually starting yelling back and "defending" myself. I know it is not right, I just didn't know how to handle all of the emotions he was causing me. I got married at 19, he was already grown. This did not help the situation. Even though in my heart I knew what was best for us, I think I would just give in for the sake of wanting our marriage to work, not wanting to disappoint him, maybe somehow he knew better than me since he had more life experience.

So I guess you could say my response to his abuse, was to act in a similar manner as well. But I took years to get where I am now. It was not like me at all. Is this typical? Do people begin to act poorly after years of feeling this way? I don't want to make excuses....I should act the way I need to, no matter what he does.

I never wanted to hurt him at all, all I wanted was to defend myself from the things I was feeling. Right now everything is focused on the outburst on both our parts, which is obviously a problem, but I see that he (we) are learning to control that. But what about the controlling behavior? He doesn't have to do outburst to make me feel so controlled. I don't feel like I can make a step without having to be paranoid about missing a text, or doing something to make him worry again. It is really hard to live like that. I want to wake up in the morning and get ready and feel good about myself, but if my clothes actually look good on me, then there is a good chance they are not ok with him. He won't admit this, but I honestly think he would be thrilled if I gained 50 pounds and didn't take care of myself. Which I am already headed down that road.

I know we can still be happy together. Just like this weekend, we had a great time together. But what I don't know / or what I need to know, is that the little hurtful things will stop and that I can have his support, even when we aren't out on a date night.

I agree with Prisca. Anyone can be on their best behavior for a short period of time. It doesn't mean the person has changed.

I understand what y'all are saying. But lets just say that they stay eliminated....there is much more hurtful things that have to do with the controlling behavior that are still there. What do we do about those things? How does he learn to get past them, when he still has those feelings?? What do I do about having to stay by my phone every second so that I don't miss a text and trigger us going downhill? And when I say miss a text I don't mean I go hours without checking my phone....I mean I can text back 10 minutes (or even less) later and things spiral out of control. Even while I am teaching or tending to our kids.

What about my long post above? Any thoughts?

When he has his angry outbursts eliminated, there will not be a time when you miss a text and it triggers a "going downhill" catastrophe.

The problem is not that he'd like you to respond to a text within a certain time and that just doesn't happen sometimes. The problem is how he treats you when you don't do things the way he wants.

The problem of how long you wait to respond to a text CAN be handled in a very respectful way that makes both of you happy. Markos and I handle conflicts like this all the time now. But it CANNOT happen as long as either of you reserves the right to punish the other when things don't happen the way "they should."

It is very typical for the abused to become the abuser. It happens in marriages all the time.

Don't give yourself an excuse, though. There are reasons you respond with abuse, but there are no excuses.

The best defense: WALK AWAY. Trust me. I had an abusive husband, and the hours upon hours that I spent abusing him in return were nowhere near as productive or fulfilling as simply walking away and refusing to engage in the fight. There is empowerment in refusing to engage.

Eliminating destructive behavior is the whole point of this exercise. We are not trying to eliminate feelings, but change behavior. Once you both eliminate all your love busters, you can negotiate things like how long you should reply to a text, etc. That has to be a JOINT decision.

You are getting GREAT advice from Prisca!! She has been through this and has resolved these problems.

Will your husband sign up and post on his own thread so we can speak to him?

I would love for him to sign up and talk as well. Right now, he is reading everything I write, and I have suggested he join in. He doesn't say no, but obviously hasn't done it. I agree that the love busters need to stop on both ends. I was just saying that not that we are not blowing up anymore, it seems like we should be addressing other behaviors / problems.

I know you are right....it felt sooo good when I started doing this before, and I haven't slipped all the way back, but I have been less successful than I was for a while there. There is nothing productive about what we have always done, not on his end or mine.

How did y'all manage to go from one extreme to the other/ how long did it take?

Maybe I don't understand or maybe I am not explaining well. We go downhill as in start bickering, not getting along, not being pleasant with eachother..... But there is no outburst (or there hasn't been since talking with Dr Harley) as far as yelling, name calling, saying terrible disgusting things.

But just because there is no "outburst" doesn't mean things are always happy or peachy....Punish is a good word, I do feel like if things don't go exactly to plan, I get punished, maybe thats a harsh word for it, but that is very much how it feels.

As for the joint agreement stuff. I very much would love for us to have a marriage that followed this, but I can't lie and say I am not a bit hesitant. I worry that it will be one more way to control everything. What happens when he won't agree to anything, when nothing is ok with him? What happens when we make an agreement and life gets in the way... Just going back to the phone example.... things come up sometimes, especially when you are trying to tend to two little kids. The other day he was texting over and over because I wasn't responding fast enough, and our son had ran off. Obviously I was more concerned about my son than his text being responded to immediately.

Thank y'all so much for the thoughtful replies!

Yes, you should be addressing your other behaviors, but the angry outbursts have to be eliminated FIRST. The program eliminates ALL of your love busters, starting with angry outbursts.

Stop it.

It doesn't matter which way you "go downhill." The fact is, you do. And it doesn't have to be that way. You don't need to explain it better -- I get it.

But in a recovered marriage, you don't go downhill. You will be able to handle conflicts without all the bickering. You will be able to discuss the texting issue without bickering over it, and you will come to a solution you will both be happy with.

Any time one spouse seeks to punish the other, it is an angry outburst. Have you read Lovebusters?

Whenever you use a word such as "obviously," you are disrespectfully judging your spouse.

I used to worry about POJA, as well. I hated to be controlled. I was told by Steve Harley that all POJA really is is "forced consideration for your spouse." It makes you consider his feelings as well as yours.

If you get what you want, but it makes him unhappy in the process, you are no better than he is when he abuses you. One problem a lot of couples have is seeing a problem as two-sided: his or hers. We must either do it MY way, or HIS way, and nothing else would ever make anybody happy. But there are so many solutions out there that can make BOTH happy, if you will just put down the nuclear weapons and talk about it like two civil adults.

Stop nuking each other.

Dr. Harley considers abusive and controlling behavior to be a spectrum of several different things. Angry outbursts are the most extreme example. Dr. Harley actually classifies any attempt to punish one's spouse as an angry outburst. But even without angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments and selfish demands are also abusive and controlling behavior. They just rate a little lower on the spectrum.

You are right that all abusive and controlling behavior will have to be eliminated. That is part of following the program. With the texting response example, I notice that the basic problem starts with a disrespectful judgment: your husband feels that you "should" respond within a certain period of time, and when you don't he escalates to an angry outburst. Usually any sentence that's got the word "should" in it is a disrespectful judgment - it assumes that one point of view is right and the other point of view is wrong.

I had to drop all ideas of what my wife "should" do (and vice versa) so that we could create a happy marriage together. Now, when one of us doesn't do something the other would like, we ask for what we'd like! And if the other isn't enthusiastic about what we'd like, we negotiate an alternative. That goes for everything, including daily mundane things like texting each other and responding.