I do recognize the boys' behavior as a problem. But the reason I say not much issue there is because they have been improving and I haven't had any trouble handling it. I do see the need for a good male role model. My counselor suggested the same. She first asked if they were involved in the youth group at church. The church we all went to together was really small and in a neighboring town. So the boys and I are visiting new churches near us. We like one we've been visiting. So soon the boys will start attending the youth classes to see how that goes.

I think a male counselor is not a bad idea either. It may have more influence than coming from "mom".

And they are in sports. In fact before all this happened my middle son was the one I worried about the most. He started football this year and I've been so impressed with the changes in him. He and I are closer now too. Unfortunately the older one, the angriest, plays soccer at school but hasn't liked his coaches. Working on finding a basketball program for the youngest.

I guess I won't worry about them not wanting to talk about stuff. I just don't want them to hate their dad. That's the part that bothers me.

ML appreciate the links and quotes. Definitely a good perspective.

Ok, but that is a rational response to an abusive father. If he wants to change that, he can learn to behave like a sane person. If they didnt hate their father after the despicable way he treated you all, I would really be concerned.

Let me put this another way: talking about their dad will not resolve their issues with him. What will repair that relationship is a radical change in his behavior. Only your husband can control that.

Your sons are right to want to avoid him as he is now. Heck, you want to avoid him and you are an adult!

Great thread!