BTW, it is hard for you to see how this would work because you both are so used to pulling out your weapons and punishing each other. It's hard to imagine being about to talk about the texting issue, for example, without all the pain of punishment that is now associated with it.

But it can be done. Couples who have gone through the program and who have recovered marriages do it everyday. Markos and I used to be at each others throats, but we handle conflicts like that everyday WITHOUT bickering. And we are still very much in love at the end of the day when we go to bed.

You cannot use the POJA or negotiation until this is done.

Read: Four Guidelines for Successful Negotiation

1. An outburst doesn't require volume.

2. When I need to remember something, I usually have to write it down and repeat it to myself before the situation could occur. You might need to write a mantra on a note card then put it in your car and bathroom. Reading it aloud a few times a day will heLP you bring to mind when the instructions are needed.

Your card might say, "I will have no angry outbursts. If the conversation becomes unpleasant IN ANY WAY, I will walk away. If asked why, I will simply say, "I need a break." If necessary, I will leave the premises to allow a cooling off period."

If you are a Christian, add the reminder "Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit." Then pray over it.

You would read the card on arriving to work, at lunch and before going into the house at night.

3. You can do this.

If you need to address what you feel is an inaccuracy in your husband's thread, bring it up here.

The people here are great at reading subtext. Read some old threads; It isn't easy to lie here.

Before you two can do POJA,you need to eliminate all angry outbursts and disrespectful judgments.

Ok. I apologize. He is not downright lying, he is just not telling the complete truth. For example, i do get frustrated with the questions, but not at first. I answer them with 100% openness and honesty, but that's never enough. He will continue to question me to the point where i feel like i am on trial. Then yes, eventually i get frustrated.

That's badgering. I consider it a form of angry outburst.
If the conversation gets unpleasant, walk away.

Thank you for this post. You're very right, is doesnt require volume. When he doesnt raise his voice it is implied that he is doing nothing wrong. Tonight is a perfect example, i have kept my cool all evening, although everytime he's walked by he has made a remark. But since he didn't cuss or yell, somehow those are ok.

Actually i totally see how this could / does work. In fact it is exactly what I have always wanted in marriage. But didn't know how to achieve.

My problem is understanding how we could go from where we are now to that point, if he would really be ok with ever having a marriage that works this way.

Apples - yes he was being extremely sarcastic, that's the way he speaks to me constantly. He doesn't realize you were talking to me, i didn't correct him because you asked me to not write on there.

Also, yes i used to be bad about deciding things last minute, not because i was cheating or anything of that nature, i guess that was just my personality. But since coming here i have tried to be much more considerate of his feelings in that way. I have tried making plans ahead of time and not springing things on him. And yes, it may help sometimes, but honestly anytime i do anything wether he knows ahead of timebor not, it turns into something bad.

My husband doesn't raise his voice either. Today he gave a derisive huff. It is going in our complaints book tonight.

I have discovered my husband needs to learn about my complaints when I am not around. I started writing them in a journal so I Would be less associated with the bad feelings he gets from the complaints.

Melody - we do have lovebuster, i have read most of it. He and i read the first chapter and he got upset and said it was all from the woman's point of view (but that was before he spoke with dr harley). We were supposed to be starting reading together tonight and he is all mad at me, honestly i don't even know why. The only thing he really said was that i should have had the park on the schedule. (I took the kids to the park for maybe 15 minutes after school, because it was beautiful outside). He replied, well then i shouldn't have to put golf on the schedule.... He is not around after school, but it's not ok for me to make a decision to go to the park for a few minutes, and that is comparable to leaving the family for hours to play golf???

Now he just walked through the room and called me a lying [censored], because of the things i am sayingnon here, which are all true.

I didn't say anything back just for the record.

Now i am an F-ing [censored]....and he had the nerve to go into my sons room as he was trying to fall asleep and say that your mommy doesn't love me, and is going to take you away from me, you are probably going to have to go to Mimi's for a long time. My son was scared to death and started yelling and throwing things himself. I can't believe he would stoop so low as to scare our son.

Don't react. Comfort your son then go to sleep. Do not engage when you are this upset.

Email the Harleys to update them.

I wouldn't stay with a man who called me a F-ing [censored].
Separate until his angry outbursts are eliminated.

What Dr. Harley told me:

Things will not get better for your marriage until you no longer tolerate his angry outbursts.

Markos hasn't had an angry outburst in 2.5 years, but he knows that if he has even one angry outburst today that I will kick him out. I refuse to live that way, and he knows it. He wants to keep me and our family, so he got himself under control.

How long did this take and what made him finally turn around? I am glad he is posting on my husbands thread, I think he needs to hear from a guy not just all women.

Things went from bad to worse last night.... After I posted that last post on the site, I went in to comfort my son and calm him down. I did not say anything to my husband at all and he walked in the other room. When I came out from my son, he came and was trying to talk to me, particularly saying that the forum made us worse and was hurting us more than helping us, and that I was lying about him on here (I have no reason to do that).

I asked him if he wanted to be in the living room or the bedroom, and that I would go to the other. He was upset that I was not wanting to engage with him and said he would follow me wherever I tried to go. Then he turned off the tv that I was watching and said "he payed for the tv anyway". I don't know how he can say that considering we are both teachers, yes he makes more than me because he is also a coach, but it's not like I don't make money the same exact way he does. I then went on to say that if he wouldn't leave me alone I would call the cops... He then took my phone and slammed it on the tv stand in an attempt to break it. When that didn't work he said something to the effect of I'll make sure it is broken (don't remember the exact words), and then he went into the garage and I could hear him slamming it over and over into the concrete floor until he was satisfied that it was broken.

After this, I told him that he needed to leave. That the kids were already in bed and the right thing would be for him to leave and cool down and we would figure things out later. He refused to leave, so I went into my youngest sons room and picked him up, told my husband we were leaving.... I was going to put the little one in the car-seat and come back and get the oldest out of bed. But as I walked out to the car he went into our oldest sons room and starting saying how mommy was going to take him away from daddy and got him out of bed. Then when I told him to hand him over and that we were not going to stay in this environment, he would not let go of my son. Said he wouldn't let me take the oldest. There is no way I could have gotten him from him, and I was not going to leave him behind so I just stayed. Now I am just at a loss. We just came off the most progress ever, but now I have been called names again, and have a destroyed phone, and a hurt son (and yes he is correct that I have been quicker to get mad than him lately, but I stayed perfectly calm all night, and never said anything to him). Honestly, the biggest things have happened when I have remained calm, it is like he can't stand the fact that he is not getting me to behave that way.

Do you see now why you have to separate from him? Your marriage problems cannot be resolved unless and until he manages his anger. Just controlling his angry outbursts for a couple of days is not a solution, it is a band-aid.

Get yourself moved out of there and don't look back until he has actually gone through an anger management course and demonstrated a radical change for at least a year.