JBK, I hope all is well with you. When you are silent, I worry that your husband has gaslighted you into not coming back because he wants you to lose your only source of support. Please don't let that happen.

Please read.
Please Explain Gaslighting

I am ok, just a really busy day at work, so I haven't been able to take a break and post....

I will update as soon as I get a chance. Thanks for the concern.

I know some of you advised against the plan I set out, but we are going to give it a shot. I honestly feel that it is the best for the boys. If he shows any signs of not respecting the guidelines, then we will immediately do something else.

I told my family what was going on, so that I will have a place to go when needed.

It is unrealistic to think that we would never see each-other at all, considering we work in the same school. So, having to exchange the kids will just be an opportunity to prove we can handle things appropriately. If not, we will do something different.

He would not be able to just "not bring me the kids" because I will be picking them up from school every day anyway. Basically he will be getting them from me, not the other way around. And I wouldn't do that to him, so there shouldn't be any problems in that regard.

The expectations are that communication is done through email, unless there is an urgent question about the kids situation, that can be done through text. If we run into eachother (including when he comes for the kids) interaction will be brief and polite, no talking about our marriage or anything of that nature. Neither of us is allowed to interfere in anyway with the others time with the kids. (No popping in at all) Also specified the days we have the kids, and some financial stuff.

After we got home yesterday, he explained to our oldest why we were going to be a part. And then he left and so far is keeping his word. I asked him to talk to our son because of what he told him the night before. My son was convinced this was all my fault, and I wanted him to tell him it wasn't. He was great with our son, and of course he is still confused. But he does understand that we are being a part so we can all learn how to behave in a better manner. It is giving me a teaching opportunity with him as well. He can get angry at times as well and I am trying to focus on the fact that we are all going to handle our emotions better than we have in the past, and that the past was unacceptable.

As for the "gaslighting" thing....that has definitely went on in the past but I am at a place now, where that is not going to happen. I want us to go on to have a happy healthy life together and the only way for that to happen is for us to both behave and react appropriately to situations. That includes me knowing what is right.

Thank y'all again for your support, I pray that he is able to make the changes needed for our family. I would love to be able to come back and say it worked like a charm!

Just know that the whole reason for separation is because you could not be "polite" to each other. You have already failed that test. It is because of this that Dr. Harley would recommend separation. A REAL separation. What you are doing is just window dressing that does nothing to fix the problem.

And yes, you do see each other at school, but that is a controlled, supervised environment. You won't have that protection with all this direct contact.

In my view, this new "plan" is just kicking the can down the road.

And lastly, what is the plan to correct his anger problem? Is there any plan here?

I understand that we could not be polite in the first place, but we are not going to be under the same roof or even going to be engaging each other.

I just don't see how this is just "kicking the can", we are separated. I will have my bag packed and ready to go as soon as he pulls up. Since I will be leaving without the kids anyway, he can't use that to keep me there like the other night in the middle of the blow-up.

He is seeing a clinical psychologist for his issues. He went last night and is going to be attending weekly. I do get your point, and I will be expecting the "expectations" to be followed completely. If not, I will take your advice and make a new plan.

Is their speciality in anger management?

Well, yes, you will be under the same roof. You are living in the same home. He can come and go as he pleases and you will just be in the same situation. All of his stuff is there and all of your stuff is there. So yes, this is just kicking the can down the road. Separation means to separate, not to keep yourself in the home together and pretend to be separated.

You will need to be separated for at least a year so I don't this plan working at all, even in the short term.

Here is your show.
Radio Clip of JBTK12 & JBTK16's Show
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

Thanks....now I wish we would have went on the show after everything happened and we separated. It seems like we need more advice now on how to recover.

And for your question earlier about "does he specialize in anger..." the one he has been going to did not. He was kind of a jack of all trades guy. But he decided to change to one that does, and he starts that this weekend. I think changing was a good decision, and I am glad he was willing to do that.

Joyce and Dr. Harley always say that once you have been in the show you are part of the MB Family. So don't be afraid to email for additional advice.

Thank you.... and I did email them right after the incident happened and I was deciding to separate. He did respond and confirmed that I did indeed need to separate. (I had already done it at that point.)

Thanks again.

Are there any threads that are related to handling a separation that does not stem from an affair? I have tried searching, but pretty much everything I find is about Dr Harley's plan B and separating after an affair.

Thanks in advance!

In your case, you would only be separated with limited, protected contact versus absolutely no contact as is prescribed in Plan B. You aren't in Plan B, in other words. In most of these cases, Dr Harley recommends communication via email or phone. After a while you can go out on dates if you feel comfortable.

FlowerGirl5 is in a similar situation and she spoke to the Harleys on 10-2.

Was there a specific question that you had? How is it going??

Not a particular question I guess, just thought there might be a thread out there from someone who went through something similar. Everything I see doesn't seem to apply considering there is no affair on either part.

Is there a way to listen to old shows? I have only ever listened to the show that is airing that day.

It is going ok. The living arrangements are going fine. The kids seem to be really benefiting from the fact that they are still in the home, no matter who's day it is with them. The exchanges of the kids have been fine, nothing hostile or anything like that. There has been a couple times where conversation was started over our situation, but it didn't become a problem at all.

The things I am struggling with are....how much communication should be taking place, how long before we should try to spend time together, how should I handle the resentment I am sometimes feeling????? Just little detail things. There seems to be so much about what to do during a separation after an affair, but I haven't found much at all about what to do in our situation, other than the fact that separation is recommended.

Also, how do you know when "real change" is being made vs. just a temporary fix? He is making steps in the right direction and I can tell he is trying really hard. And I know his intentions are sincere, but when does it cross over from being a temporary fix to real change?

When we do start going on dates again, it is almost a given that the dates will go well, but that doesn't give me any indication on how "normal life" will go.

Last but not least, I know the things he needs to do to turn this around. But I'm not so sure what all I should be doing in the meantime? At the moment, I am just trying to relax and feel less stressed, that is something I have not been able to do in so long. I am reading love busters, because I know I was engaging in them as well.

I guess I just need some general advice on how to help make this separation a success and lead to a happy marriage.

Thanks in advance for hearing my concerns!

You should communicate as often as you feel comfortable and the communication is productive to your marriage. You need to use your judgement on this. Some couples are so volatile that being in too much contact causes more harm than good.


It crosses over when it becomes a habit. So, when he completes anger management and really, truly conquers his anger issues AND demonstrates changed behavior for at least a year, you can be pretty assured he has changed.


Great dates should be your "normal life."


Just keep doing what you are doing. Learn to relax and eliminate love busters.

Thanks for everything.

But how do I know when it is a habit???? Not just something he is doing to get me to come back? And then it is all going to go out the window as soon as something starts getting to him.

As for the "normal life", our dates have always been good (for the most part anyway, there have been a few times that "date night" ended badly for one reason or another). But we can't be on a date all day everyday, so it's the in between, the times we aren't together... at work, or when he's at a game, etc. Basically anytime that we aren't going on a date or spending undivided time together.... These are the times that cause all the problems for us, and it is unrealistic to say we could just avoid ever being out of each-others sight.

When we start to date again, things will feel good and right, but how will I know that when I get back under the same roof with him and we aren't on a date, that things will be different, dramatically different than they ever were before?

What do I do about the hurt and resentment I am still feeling? Does that just go away with time?

He is doing everything to get you back so when you see him demonstrating good behavior over a long period of time, you will believe it. Dr Harley advises giving it at least a year.


I am not sure what you are asking here. If you are not together how would that be a problem?


Read above. You will know when things are different.


That goes away when you replace the bad marriage with a great marriage.

You're right, it is not a problem right now, while we are not together. I was referring to when we are back together. If we go on dates and that goes well, and the communication we have is going well while being separated, what happens when we are back together, and have to face the things that he would get upset about in the first place.... Showing me he can do the right things on a date, doesn't really demonstrate that he could do the right things while living together again.

Your only contact with him won't just be on dates. Over a years period of time, you will be able to see him in different scenarios and see how he handles stress. You can also work with his anger management counselor and get his opinion on your husband's process.

You just need to go with the flow and be patient. This isn't going to happen overnight.