Thanks for the encouragement!

Is this your show?

Radio Clip of FlowerGirl5's show
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Yes

This is the same link with my letter. I added what he replied with, and now my response at the end. Thoughts before I send it to him?

https://db.tt/7Muv8Dp8

Can I make a few changes? First off, asking an addict to stay straight FOR NOW is a first class ticket to hell. An addict can never have narcotics or alcohol AGAIN. EVER. All it does is trigger the addiction. So if you allow him to do it again in the future, then you will get all this back. Again, an addict CAN NEVER USE ALCOHOL OR DRUGS AGAIN. I am an alcoholic and have been sober for 30 years. That does not mean that I "have not been addicted all these years." It means I am in remission and one drink will take me right back to crazy town. Your husband is an addict and he can never take another narcotic or drink booze.

I think it is a huge mistake to give him a budget. This is a grown man, for crying out loud. He needs to use this separation to grow up and start taking responsibility for his life. You have been babying him to a great degree, and helped him be a punk, which has crippled him. An addict needs TOUGH LOVE in order to recover, so you need to be tougher here:

My Response H, I can�t force myself to feel something I don�t. Nor can I be responsible for your happiness - find peace and joy in life that isn�t completely dependent upon me. I am choosing to stay open to possibilities because it is consistent with my values. Staying open to the possibility of reconciliation is my compromise. The only reasonable solution to me is that you learn to eliminate angry outbursts (I will too) and stop using drugs. Having attempted joint counseling and continuing to discuss things now is fostering more anger and pushing me further away. I need the three several months of separation (not discussing everything and with limited contact) to step back and view things objectively. Three months That is not unreasonable. If you are able to make some major changes in that time I would agree , I am compromising by agreeing to consider a weekly date night after three several months of verifiable progress in anger management.

Finances need to be separated to avoid further conflict. Your disability check is $1570 per month. Below are examples of how to make that work. Right now you don�t have any car payment, car insurance, health insurance, cell phone (if I can afford it), or kids� expenses. I will agree to work with you on paying for counseling during the separation. Please get me the receipts to submit for out of network reimbursement. You will have to find a way to live on that.
Apartment Option Room for Rent Option Apartment: $800 Room: $600 Utilities: $150 Utilities: included Groceries: $300 Groceries: $300 Gas: $50 Gas: $50 Prescriptions: $50 Prescriptions: $50 TOTAL: $1350 TOTAL: $1000 EXTRA: $220 EXTRA: $570

Concerning substances, right now I can�t tolerate any of it. I have fear and no trust. It�s a risk I wouldn�t be willing to take at this point ever again. I do understand doing nothing to treat pain isn�t a healthy option either. Please explore other pain treatment options such as injections or physical therapy. I understand Suboxone isn�t addictive, so I�ll table this (nothing else) for three months, as ultimately, this is only an issue to discuss if we reconcile and you move home.

I am not taking your family from you. You can still have the relationship with the kids you choose to have. I am willing to compromise on the visitation calendar. Please propose a schedule.

ML, my initial responses were much like yours. My therapist and I talked about this yesterday and this is what we came up with. I did say to my sister afterwards I was frustrated with her (therapist).

I said the same thing about giving him a budget - that he is a grown man. She agreed but thought this would show him it could be done.

I agree about the narcotics too. What I do struggle with though is severe pain. She said (and he and I have read stuff on the web too) that not treating pain isn't good either. The only medicine he takes (suboxone) isn't addictive. It has an antagonist that counters the euphoric high. He's taken that medicine for years. I can see him having even more anger issues being in extreme pain too.

I dearly hope you don't take her advice because giving an addict a budget does not help him be a big boy. I truly question her judgement in speaking to an addict in that way. Does she know anything about addiction? EVer worked with addicts? I HAVE!


He will have to figure it out. Once again, you are not his mother. This is a grown man. There is no need to treat him like a child. If he is in pain, he can get back surgery and look into cortesteroid shots like everyone else.

If he has "anger issues due to his pain," then he had better solve the problem if he wants to have a family!

Will you please change the letter to take out the parts that are enabling and harmful to an addict?

Your husband has a crippling drug dependence and a dependence on you because you have enabled him. He will never recover if you continue mothering him like he is a child. This is a not a stupid man. This is an entitled, drug addicted man who wants to be taken care of. He will never take care of himself unless and until you step aside and treat him like an adult. I would not even write such a letter to my own grown son, so I cannot even fathom writing it to a 40 year old man.

Your husband is a smart guy. He has all the resources he needs to succeed in life. Please allow him that opportunity by getting out his way. There is nothing compassionate in enabling an addict, I promise you.

I will be changing it. I wasn't comfortable sending it which is why I came here for advice. Honestly, I'm getting quite frustrated with it all. The longer this goes back and forth I think just deal with it already. Step up and win us back. It may be time to make a permanent decision.

I would send the letter and stop responding to him. OR post it here and we can help you with unemotional responses. We are not emotionally invested so we can be invaluable in persuading him you are dead serious.

I would be GLAD to help you drive the message home to him!

What i meant was that you can post any of his responses here if you want and we can help you respond. I just re-read my post and it didnt make any sense. Sorry!

Thanks for the tips. I just re typed it. I'm going to send before I go to bed and won't be tempted to look at my phone or ipad.

Good girl!

Here's his response.

I need a calendar of ALL the kids sports and events to make a calendar.
Right now I don't have a choice because the kids and you are too busy.
I can't afford to live on just my disability. I'm trying now to find anyplace to live. With no internet. I'll have no money for anything like food or gas.
My back pain is too much for "nothing" to be reasonable. I'd be passing out all the time... You know that. You had a hand in this too... You need to make some changes also. That might be a reasonable compromise.
We need to talk because we have kids.

FG, is there a reason he would ask oyu for the calendar of events and not know this himself? How about offering him a set time for visitation that you and the kids work out.

Will your kids even visit with him?

I already gave him a calendar of events with suggested visitation times. So it's perplexing. I let him know I didn't leave anything off. Even when in the house he never really knew when and what was happening in spite of it all being written on a large calendar. Two kids are questionable about seeing him.

Thanks Joe, I already sent you the calendar of events, so I would suggest checking with the boys to see when they want to see you. As of now, Joey and Billy won't agree to see you, so hopefully you can resolve that. Thanks, Flowergirl

IGNORE all of this. He is still trying to negotiate and there is nothing TO negotiate. The negotiations are closed.

If he continues to try to debate and fight with you, I woudl find an intermediary and stop communcating with him entirely. And NO, you do not "need to talk because we have kids." Anything he needs to say can be commmunicated through a 3rd party.

Don't fall for that bullcrap that you have to talk to him directly "for the sake of the kids." That is utter nonsense. It is better for the kids if you DON'T communicate directly because he brings you down so badly. You are a better parent if you don't have his toxic presence in your life.

"I've said my piece and counted to three." -Holly Hunter, O Brother, Where Art Thou