My H changed all his email addresses months ago when I found out about his inappropriate friendships with girls from the Internet. We've been working on things and all in all, things were getting better. I even almost trust him again <P>Well, today he walks in the door and tells me he got a mail from one of them. She somehow guessed (?) his work email address (he had always mailed them from another account) and was just wondering how he was doing -- after SIX months of not hearing from him. I mean, why bother?<P>We argued endlessly about this for months and he agreed not to have contact with these women. This one in particular was not an EA but more of a "female friend he didn't want me to be jealous of". I hate it, but I can tell he really wants to respond.<P>What should I do?? I don't want to give him an ultimatum but I also don't want to wonder every day whether this b*tch is chasing him again (she's another of his trademarked needy female cases).<P>Do I "let" him respond or tell him he can't? Any other suggestions?

I would personally advise you to ask your husband to respond to this e-mail. However, you should ask your husband to tell his e-mail friend that he cut off contact because he didn't want any further contact, and if she decides to contact him again he will contact her ISP and have her access revoked. You can definitely tell people to leave you alone in language that leaves no questions unanswered, and if she contacts your husband again simply complain to her ISP. <P>Don't tolerate or attempt to ignore obsessive personalities like this woman. They must be told, and promptly, that contact with them is unwanted, or they will persist indefinitely.<P>------------------<BR>~~ Elixir ~~<BR>

Thanks Elixir, but he won't do it. He has known this woman for 4 years and hid his friendship with her from me for the last two and a half (the reason? my "jealousy" pushed him to hide it). He really wants to reply but says he won't if I tell him he can't.<P>There's no way he'll tell her to get lost. He just five minutes ago said in reply to my "Want me to tell her to [censored] off for you?..."No, after all, she didn't do anything. She was just a friend and she's wondering how I'm doing."<P>See the dilemma I'm in? If I even ASK him to say something like that to her, he'll think I'm nuts. After all, she's just a friend, don't you know.<P>I'm getting real riled up here. I know that if I mail her and tell her to get lost, she'll just run to my H and tell him about it. His solution is not to reply at all. What do you think of it?

If your H does respond...<BR>have him put on the CC: <B>your</B> personal email address, so she knows H is serious about your H's closure with the relationship <B>and</B> that you are aware of it. It wouldn't be a bad idea to put a "block" on the incomming mail (for her address) if that is available to your H.<P>-------------<P>I just saw your next reply....<BR>H has to separate from OW(s) now!<BR>I don't know all of your story (incomplete profile...) but if H is still "saying" she just a friend... that would more than worry me. Are you working using Harley's principals?... with your H using them too?...<P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited November 09, 1999).]

NSR, I think that's a good idea too. But he doesn't want to send ANY reply, let alone one that tells her to go away and has my address on it, too.<P>This is driving me nuts. I thought we were done with all these girls and then the one "closest" to him and the most "innocent" (sure) shows up to see if he's doing ok. Gimme a break!<P>THe main thing is that I cannot look controlling here. I don't want to tell him what to do but I also don't want to worry about them getting together for secret chats again. I worry that if I allow him to respond, they'll start emailing and confiding in each other again and end up chatting behind my back.<P>ARGH!

Just as a side note, "not responding" is my H's way of dealing with everything. I had to stand over him and threaten to leave in order to get him to break it off with his EA in February. He balked for hours before finally going online and saying "I can't talk to you anymore". He has never closed ANYTHING with anyone...even then he went online first thing the next morning to "break it off properly" behind my back.

Hi again NSR. Thanks for taking time with this. My H insists that she was never more than a friend, and it IS possible, but then why would he hide her existence from me for 2 and a half years, and even lie outright when I asked if he had heard from her? Sorry, my supposed jealousy is not a reason to lie and sneak around with online women.<P>He has never admitted to anything more than "slightly" inappropriate friendships with any of these women. THe most he will admit to is confiding in them behind my back and calling them up because they "seemed suicidal and needed him -- he was the only one they could talk to". I made him break it off with all of them in February in front of me, but even then it took a few weeks before he stopped contacting the neediest of them. He never did tell the one from today to get lost...he just stopped answering her mails and changed all his addresses. Well, she must have guessed (yeah I know that sounds weird) his work address and is now wondering how he is and why he hasn't contacted her in so long. I can tell he wants to respond, and I can't tell you how much I wish he DIDN'T want to.<P>Yes, we're using the principles and it's working very well. So well in fact that I know that if we hadn't been using them, and they hadn't been working, he never would have told me about this mail. H is (was?) a major conflict avoider, and usually lies or denies anything he think might cause trouble. The very fact that he showed me this mail IMMEDIATELY upon walking in the door is a wonderful sign of progress.<P>I know I can't make him NOT want to respond, but what is the best way to handle this, barring my dream coming true?

He has no reason to reply to her at all. Not even to tell her to get bent! Just tell him you would prefer it if he didn't reply.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A><p>[This message has been edited by Chris (CA123) (edited November 09, 1999).]

This is <B>very</B> hard.<P>I'm very happy for you in how far you've come on rebuilding your marriage with your husband so far. Congratualtions...<P>Maybe... if your husband can shovel off his "expertise" in counseling the "neediest" to a real counselor... make recommendations to OW about where to get real(professional) help! Mmaybe you can look up some psychiatrists/pyschologists in the yellow pages and pass it on to him... for him to pass it on to her! Let OW know that now is a "challenging" time for He and You, and that H doesn't have the time to devote to her needs!<P>I don't know what else I'd try... but he has to make it clear to OW (any and all) he is not there for them! Your concerns expressed lovingly to him may make him think of some more good ways to let them know... <B>H is working on him and you only!</B> <P>Jim

You are so right about not want H to see you as controlling. Of course he's putting you in a precarious situation.<P>It is good, unbelievably good, that he told you about this.<P>Now of course it matters how this is handled. I really can't comment on whether or not he should respond or in what manner.<P>I think the important goal here is to be on the same team, not on opposing teams where either of you feel this is a win/lose situation. I think your H is guilty of this right now. He shouldn't have taken a position and then gave you the choice to agree or tell him he "can't" which of course puts you on oppiset teams and a win/lose situation.<P>Clear the playing field. Thank him for telling you. Tell him this is very upseting because you care deeply about your marriage and do not want anything to threaten it. Tell him you believe he feels the same way since he was open enough to tell you about this. Then tell him you want to be on the same team and come up with a solution that you can both live with. Start with the goal of protecting your marriage. In this case you need to protect it from outside involvement (friend) and an internal conflict and power struggle. <P>Why not ask him (you can do this too) to write down all possible solutions, maybe even rank them and then evaluate them against the ultimate goal to protect your marriage. See if he comes up with something himself that he can take ownership of. If nothing on his list is acceptable to you, explain your fears and your viewpoint, not in an attempt to persuade, but to make sure he understands your motives. <P>Best of luck!<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Thanks NSR, Chris and FHL <P>He has decided not to reply at all, and to change his work email address once more. Would you believe this woman tracked his work address down by searching the Web for listings that LOOKED like they might be related to his work? God knows how many addresses she tried before she hit on the right one. I cannot believe someone would bother like that after 6 months of no contact.<P>Thanks again everyone. I hope I don't have to bother you guys with this again, and that he really doesn't reply and she just goes away.<P>Believe me though, I'm sorely tempted to go online and IM her with "get lost already, you moron!"

Chrisalle, his story that that's how she got his email doesn't hold water. Telling you is good. Not replying leaves the door open. Then why did he tell you? Probably a test of some sort. "testing your mettle"<P>But if you MAKE him reply that's a lovebuster. If he's really working on the marriage he'll do whatever you want him to do, I mean, gee, how important is a faceless stranger compared to you? If he's keeping a door open...he's keeping a door open.<P>Don't mean to bring you down, been down this road...<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)<P>

Hi Lor<P>I believe the story about how she found his address. Gotta explain why: Months ago, he changed all his email addresses. But he had to leave one, and that was his work address. This was the one she found on the Web, when she was searching for the Internet registration for the domain he owns. Since she and he both are computer gurus, this isn't hard for her to do. My H and I figured this out when we went to the registry page -- it's plain as day for anyone who knows what to look for. I should have made that clearer in my previous posts.<P>Now, if he HAD given her this address and then told me about the mail, that would be sick. I hate games and refuse to play. But I do believe that this is the first he heard from her in all those months, and that she dug up his address herself.<P>Now he's forced to change it, and put a fake on the registry page lest she tries this again. That *should* be the end of her, but I can also see her mailing all the admins of the domain trying to track him down. She seems relentless.<P>As to the lovebusters, I just asked him what he wanted to do about it. At first he said he would respect what we agreed on months ago and not contact her, then changed it a little to include "but if you DIDN'T exist or if it didn't bother you, I would contact her." <P>In case you think that's an innocent remark, check these occurences out:<P>Once in the past, not that he remembers saying this, he said "If I'd never met you, who knows what might have happened between B and me." Real comforting.<P>And after disclosure of his EA with someone else, I also found an email from him to her describing some semi-sexy dream he had about her, where she was tied to a ship's figurehead and he "rescued" her with "smewches". His response to my questions? "It was just a dream, and since it was funny, I thought she would appreciate the joke".<P>Also found out he tried calling her a few times over the course of last year, but she was never in when he called. All of this was unbeknownst to me until I caught him with his EA (another woman) in February, at which time he more or less confessed all his little friendships. The woman in question was the only one I had any inkling of, since he had met her online long before meeting and marrying me. I thought she was long gone -- he started telling me she had "disappeared" in 1997 and never mentioned her again until D-Day...over 2 years later. I used to ask him if he'd seen B and he would always say "Oh no, she hasn't been online in AGES". Meanwhile he was emailing and chatting with her, and even cared enough to send her the picture that he snuck out of the house to send the EA. Who knows how many other women got it? Sometimes I feel as if I only know about the women I had suspicions about, or had proof about...and that there are more that he will never tell me about, since I can't prove it or don't know of their existence.<P>All I'm saying is, if she was only a friend all this time, then why not admit talking to her? He's tried to push it all onto me by saying that "he could see I didn't like it when he used to talk to her, so he thought he should just stop telling me about their contact". So it's MY jealousy that's the culprit? Sounds like a big cop-out to me.<P>How about NOT TALKING TO HER AT ALL IF HE SAW IT WAS BOTHERING ME??<P>I told him ages ago that hiding her only made it worse -- I never would have complained about his having a female friend to chat or mail with if he hadn't have made it look suspicious by hiding her. Not to mention the dream and the smewches, of course.<P>Sorry for raving, but I needed to vent and didn't want to do it to my H. We really are making tons of progress here and I don't want this b*tch from the past messing it all up.<P>Thanks again for responding, everyone. I thought I was losing it last night! <P>[This message has been edited by Cristalle1 (edited November 10, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by Cristalle1 (edited November 10, 1999).]

Ack! I just saw the woman online under her new handle, the one she gave my H in the email. I'm itching to tell her to leave my H alone and stop mailing, to get a clue.<P>This is nuts!

C, <BR>All I can tell you from experience is that ANY relationship with a woman online at this point is inapproprate considering his EA online. My H did the same thing. He "ended" it with the EA W, but continued talking to other W abour us, our issues, etc. I had no trust in his online activities, and his continuing to chat with other women just created more distrust in me, no matter how possibly innocent he may have thought it was. He must stop it, now. <P>------------------<BR>Susan<P>

Hi Sue<P>I agree totally. This woman wasn't his EA, but he did confide in her about me about things I had no idea about...problems he had that he didn't tell me about. I'm getting to the point where I think almost any "close" freindship between men and women is impossible. Intimacy and secrecy always seem to rear their ugly heads.<P>The main thing is that he doesn't start up again with this woman. He told me himself once that he considered her his closest friend and that he had no one else he could trust to talk to when he "had problems with me". OUCH. This is definitely red flag territory. I wouldn't mind him talking about his marital issues with a MALE friend, and then discussing the feedback with me, but talking secretly about me to some woman who may or may not have designs on him is just too threatening.<P>If only he didn't WANT to talk to her, I would be happy. But he told me that if I didn't mind, that yes, he would reply to her and resume the friendship. <P>Now, tell me why a woman he's never met over 4000 miles away is THAT important??<P>ARGH!<P>

C, <BR>I agree....but I can tell you, that is long as he is continuing in online activities you find uncomfortable, you will create barriers in reviving your marriage. All the bad memories will surface, the doubts and distrust will reappear, and your hopes of getting your marriage back on track and staying there will be temporarily dashed. I have been there, I know. It takes a commitment from BOTH of you to know that the online thing created a rift between you, and that in order for the marriage to florish, Dr. Harleys principle must apply " Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement from both spouses". Talk to your H in a non threatening manner..Tell him how you feel when he talks to other W online. Tel him you love him and want nothing more than your marriage, but this behavior leaves you feeling uncomfortable. Email me @ Arabrider@msn.com if you wnat to talk more.<P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

Hi again Sue<P>Believe me, I'd like nothing better than to not have to deal with this issue anymore. It has been 10 months since disclosure, and I really thought we had gotten rid of all these online women ages ago. I still can't believe she didn't take the hint, and that she bothered to ferret out his new address like that. <P>You're also right about it sowing distrust and doubt. I've already been online all day watching her IRC user to see if she's talking to anyone. If I could hack into my H's email I would. I just want these women to go the hell away and stop interfering, and most of all I want my H to NOT WANT to talk to any of them, even B his "closest" friend. Get a male friend already, is my battle cry.<P>I just checked the Web registration and his address is still there. I'm beginning to think that if I don't push him to change it, he never will. It took months of my bugging him to get him to do it last time. It's almost as if he WANTS to be able to receive mail from her, or them.<P>How hard should I push him to change it, or should I just let it be? I really don't want to be in the position next week of having to hear she's mailed him again, when changing the address TODAY would solve the problem once and for all.

Another thing that bugs me. I told him that I would be more than happy to tell her her mails were unwanted, if he was unable to do it. He forbade me to talk to her...extracted a promise that I wouldn't do it THREE TIMES.<P>When I asked why he said that "why should her feelings be hurt" and "she didn't do anything to deserve being told to get lost".<P>Why are her feelings more important than mine? Wouldn't it be better to be STRAIGHT with this woman, tell her her attention is unwelcome, and be done with it once and for all?<P>Like I said before, I have the sneaking suspicion that he wants to get her mail and is hoping I'll come around some day and "allow" him to resume the friendship.<P>If only he didn't want to resume it!

This doesn't say much for the integrity of your marriage. What it says is that he'd prefer the unknown to what he has now. What satisfaction did he get from telling you that she'd e-mailed him at all if he had no intention of replying? Why is it okay to hurt your feelings but not hers? <P>I appreciate the need to appear neutral, focused, and non-controlling, but in a partnership, both parties contribute equally and the input is utilized. You were allowed to input, but he's making a unilateral decision. That goes against the spirit of the program.