To make a long story short, It has been 6 months since I exposed my WW�s EA. She moved away across country to the same town as the OM and has now come back home because the kids are here. We want to avoid D, but I will not stay married to her if she refuses to work on fundamentally fixing the marriage and be faithful. We cannot get beyond the EA because she denies that it occurred. She has refused to end contact with the OM which is why I exposed. I don�t know if she is currently continuing to contact him but she keeps her cell phone hidden at all times. She says that I am �crazy� for the exposure. I would like to simply post a series of text messages here for a group of impartial observers who have experience with infidelity. I will not mention any of the other behaviors or long saga that has occurred. I would like to simply ask;
#1 Does this constitute an EA, is it just inappropriate, or neither?
#2 Should she cut off all contact with the OM?
#3 Am I �crazy� and where should we go from here?

Is there general consensus that I can post the texts here and print your responses and share with my WW (knowing that your responses should be impartial, and I will share them with her)?
I do this out of desperation because I cannot have the discussion with her because �I am crazy� and family/ friends are not impartial. My family and everyone who knows me well have supported me and are shocked by my WW�s behavior. My WW�s family & friends many of whom have never met me simply agree that I am over controlling and she is a victim.

People who are in affairs are blind, deaf and dumb to what they are doing. My ex spent about an hour a day writing amusing accounts of his weekend to his "friend" - After about 2 years of this, I became suspicious and sneaked into his briefcase and found one of the letters. That was D day. He spent on average 2 hours a day talking to her on his cell phone. He hid invitations from people to us, and last minute, when it was too late to hire a sitter, he announced he was going to the events. He never acknowledged that he was in an affair. BTW, I never exposed, and we ARE divorced.
At least you exposed. Never mind whether people believed what you said. You fought back.
#1 Yes, it IS an EA.
#2 Yes, she should cut off all contact.
#3 I don't know whether you are crazy.
At least she is home, where you can Plan A.

I'm going to put this out there. Here is what I found that started it all...

Day after meeting OM at 20yr HS reunion which I did not attend:
OM: I may have the day off today, waiting to find out. I will call you as soon as I know.
WW: Sitting on train going into City. Want to come over when we get back? We can have pasta for dinner. Do you have any hockey sticks? Can play street hockey with my son.
OM: Yeah whatever u want. Still on Standby. Waiting to hear back from boss. Call you when I am sure whats what N we make plan
WW: Alright
OM: So I got the day off I will call u 12sh Is that good?
WW: In City will probably catch 4:20 then be in town at 5:20-:30ish
OM: Oh God Sorry U need not bother if you are busy We can catch up later?
WW: Come over for dinner
OM: OK
WW: Call you when we get back don�t go anywhere without your phone
OM: I won�t
Next day
WW: Morning forgot to tell you last night, I like your Pixxies T-shirt
OM: Goodmorn and thank you
WW: Thank you for last night. The boys had the best time
OM: Last night was great� I wish I left the hockey sticks. Thank you for dinner and everything.
WW: No, there your sticks; you are gonna need them. Thanks for coming. Your always good company.
WW:
Following Week
WW: Back now� Miss being Home. Glad I got to see you. Thanks for playing with my boys.
OM: I like your boys� hopefully you move back home� it was nice to see u
WW: My phone died this morning, just coming across this. Tried to call you last night just to talk & see how you were doing. Hope to move back up there too.
Video
WW: Son playing street hockey at his birthday party. He learned from the best. Thanks!
OM: I like pic� it was nice to see u sin n ur mom� looking forward to talking and see how the rest of your trip was. What time of day is best to call?
WW: Aren�t you at work?
OM: yes painting a lawyers office that�s why I could answer� I meant a good time of day to call
OM: have to be quiet on vibrate Being naughty texting.
WW: Just tried you again. Guess you are working. Guess we can start a game of phone tag. Sometimes its hard to talk. Boys are so loud when on phone.
Don�t want to get you in trouble at work. You can try when out/in morning Whenever is good for you. Have a good day.
Trying to catch up on email and just came across one
Another day
WW: Morning OM
WW: been hanging out at skating rink watching hockey. & listening to a Pink Floyd CD. So, been thinking of you Rogwa
OM: That�s beautiful thank u for sharing just made a poor day �nice like u always do� for me anyway. I always remember u getting off at my stop so u could carry my books when I was injured. That�s when you became stuck with me for life. Thanks for a smile when there wasn�t one today. Love OM.
WW: Whats up.. .why are you having a bad day? I am here for you even though to far away. Tell me what is wrong. Funny that you put stuck with me for life. Because in my head I hope we end up in the same nursing home.
OM: no big deal just stress at work.. .murphy�s law.
WW: Hmmmm
OM: are you bored?
OM: Hmmmm
WW; No, wondering what you mean by Murphy�s law at work?
OM: Look up �murphys law� I had the poster.. .the article in murphys law that applies to me today �anything that can go wrong��
WW: I know what it means. Just not what is going on at work for you. I want to see that movie, the horrible very bad no good day one.
OM: I will google that movie to see what it is� to reply. About my work day.. just picture the old silent slapstick comedy� set on a construction site.?
OM: Chaotic but nice
WW: Rain?
WW: sounds like you like what you are doing?
OM: It�s not bad
WW: what could be worse, bartending? You were a good bartender� You make best dirty martini�s.
WW: Knowing you, you probably enjoy working on a team & the adrenaline of deadlines
WW; just hope you are happy & enjoy what your doing. must be nice to see the finished product.
OM: Not sure happy is the word I am� but the finished product feels nice. Sense of completion. Physical work too which is my idea of multitasking because I can�t exercise consistently.
OM: Because I am lazy
OM: For the record I was not a good bartender until my return from California. It was like I went to learn the force from Yoda. (then nobody got to experience my evolved self) mr self destruct ha ha
WW: haha� happy is not the word I am either. It is a very weird time in my life. Love my boys & they fulfill me, but being here just depresses me. Understand what you mean about work. I enjoyed the running around of waitressing. The office jobs give me the jimmy legs. Hope I get to experience your evolved self. Could use a good drink & good company. Remember my office job & how when I got home to late / raining you would pick me up.
WW: Thank you
OM: I love you too.
OM: Solder on and kick the [censored] out of that depression
WW: Feel like I dies and went to hell. Because it is that hot here. & obvious imaginable. At least God gave me 2 guardian angels� / would it be a living hell.
WW: been thinking and worrying about you. Did you get a roommate?
OM: I don�t know what I am doing� def 1 day to the next im living� its depressing me� but I�m working two jobs get home from one go strait to the other� that�s where I�m headed now. Not giving myself time to feel bad.
Long break�.
WW: That makes me happy that you didn�t go back to the she hitler. I am proud of you. What is job #2.
OM; job #1 is construction / carpentry. Job #2 is lead removal and repainting of a lawyers office. My own contract. So I�m limited to daylight hours hence going in at dawn and leaving
break��.
WW: At carnival with my boys for a school fundraiser. So having fun with them. Thanks for checking on me. Hope you are having a good day too. Hot out here though.
OM: Better now that I know you are doing good today.
W: Cannot even tell you how much that means to me. Don�t know why I am lucky to have you looking out for me.
�.. this goes on for a while.

I confronted her and for the most part it went underground from there. Was I "controlling" and "crazy" for trying to stop this?

The texts read like a close, loving couple. There's nothing blatant or sexual, but a lot of emotional romantic energy back and forth. Of course you are right. It's an emotional affair. But like I posted, your wife will not see it. The affair is like the heroin addiction.

I would wait for a response from the veterans on here, about whether to copy and send the texts to the same people that you exposed to before. Even her own family might get the creeps when reading them. All it takes is one person, to "get it." And you never know from where support will spring up, and start blowing the fog away.

Keep this website and anything you learn here secret from your wife. It's a strong secret weapon to help you fight for your marriage.
I don't suggest trying to educate her. According to MB, that never helps open the eyes of the wayward. Just keep repeating like a broken record,
"Wife, I love you, and I love our family. I will do everything I can to make our marriage loving and passionate again. But you must end your affair with the OM."

Oh, gag. YES. It is DEFINITELY an affair. Offer to show the doubters your proof. There are some techniques in the Exposure thread, like creAting a wwebpage.

A webpage! OMG! That's fantastic. The upside of the internet, combating affairs.

It really was brilliant.

TM- did she move and then meet this OM or move to be with this OM?

There is a long thread on this already... but, this is an old friend from growing up.. they saw each other at 20yr HS reunion. After I exposed... she drove cross country with the kids and rented an apartment less than 1 mile from him (meanwhile denying the affair). I filed for divorce and got the kids back. She recently moved back to be with the kids and needs my support financially.

I remember now! Way to go. The blindness of affair enablers always amazes me. Yeah, she ran away across country where this guy just happens to be, but it was not an affair. If her family an friends are willING to swallow that one, I'm a Nigerian prince who needs their help getting my inheritance. All they have to do is wire me $50grand

Good for you -- standing strong and getting the kids back.

Could you notify the Mods to fuse your threads so no one else is confused?

The old adage of men and women can't truly be friends because the sex thing always, eventually gets in the way.

At the least, it is an inappropriate relationship with a person of the opposite sex, at worst it is full blown physical adultery.

What person that wasn't "attached" to someone move across country and live next to said someone.

The text exchange you posted is way too familiar, flirty, comfortable and nauseating.
She is in denial.

Here is the link to the original thread: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2856884&page=1

I see us being able to rebuild a friendship and start to recover if this POSOM is not waiting in the wings... How do I get her to agree to never see or speak to him again? It so obvious and logical to me, but not to her.

With regard to her friends... her friends are going to see her more than they will ever see me. My WW can be very manipulative and quite honestly instill fear if you do not take her side... so if you are her "friend" life is just easier if you agree with her... you want to agree with her. I may be one of the few people in the world that had stood up to her and is not afraid at this point.

I really appreciate the feedback... not withstanding my gut and all the ugly behavior, secretiveness, and lies I have noticed since this relationship started... is there any way a reasonable person could look at these text messages and think this is OK? I really want the truth. When I compare the phone bill to the text messages, I can see that she started deleting lots of messages after I discovered this... so, really... this was just the start of it.

After all we have been through and the exposure... on some level, she must understand that the fantasy is dead on this one.

You need to move forward with a separation. I would consult with a lawyer to make sure you are legally protected before yuo move out. Too bad you did not do this while she was moved out.

Accept that she is not going to end her affair and act accordingly.

Long, complicated legal story... I have spent $100K already on this legal problem fighting in court in 2 different states, restraining order, you name it.. I'm about tapped out. If we separate, I lose the kids and I have to still support her (she has no job). I have a pending divorce which is in process... all I can do is allow the Divorce to go through. If she contacts the OM or goes to see him or anything, I firmly intend to move the divorce forward, and fight for full custody. That's all I can do. She does seem to be "acting" differently now that she is back... like she is slowly coming back to her senses.. . I almost have no choice but to be back in plan A because we have to see eachother and live together. If the threat of losing her children and the fact that they can never live in the same state, and this guy is a complete loser doesn't draw her to me and away from him... I don't know what will. Really, we have a few months for her to come around before we are finalizing the divorce. She really needs simply admit that she made a mistake... then we could move forward.

But she's not going to do that, and you can't make her do that.

Have your lawyers told you not to move out?

You should push the divorce forward and fight for full custody of the kids.

I am completley baffled. Did you not just post that she will not end contact and work on the marriage? This affair can go for years, and Dr Harley does not propose a "PLan A" as a way of life for conflict avoiders.

Did she end the affair? Did she send a no contact letter?

No, she needs to end her affair.

I don't have time to read everything again,but didn't you just post texts between her and the OM????

These are the texts from a year ago... before exposure. I believe that this relationship is over.

My bottom line is that I am divorcing her unless she agrees to end all contact forever.

What do you think of these texts though? Is there any merit to her claim that I am "crazy" or "controlling"?

Here are some pros/ cons for my WW:
She knows & agrees that infidelity is wrong... which is one reason she denies this affair so strongly
She is not a serial cheater
She has poor boundaries with friends of the opposite sex as many people do who are not familiar with Dr Harley's principles.
She is very, very, very BPD... she cannot admit to a mistake because to do so would damage her fragile image of self and thus she is worthless.
She would of course choose her family over the OM... she has said that she would agree to stop seeing him through a court mediator... It will take her time and therapy before ever admitting a mistake.

I have a pending divorce, so it will happen if nothing changes. The time we have right now before the divorce is final is simply time for her to show me that contact with the OM has ended and she will put forth the MB principles.

She has spent the last year deamonizing me to justify her outrageous unforgivable behavior. It has taken her a few weeks to begin to warm back up to me and start being comfortable to just be together again. Just to move back home has shown everyone that she was full of it... I'm not a controlling monster / child abuser etc... she has basically had to admit that. Her mom has had to take over her year lease that she signed and bail her but out of lots of legal bills. I'm sure that where she is standing today has not been easy. If she does not end contact 100% and commit to the plan for marital recovery before the divorce is final, I simply sign the papers.

I think that she WILL ultimately agree to no contact to avoid the divorce, but she will not agree to admit to the affair nor say sorry for it. I know that Dr Harley does not demand an apology. I think that the affair is plain as day just based on these texts if nothing else. What do you think?

I'm not sure what the purpose of texts are if you already eexposed several months ago.

If she does not agree to the SAA checklist including transparency, are you going to continue with Plan A? Have you presented her with the checklist? Are you inviting her on dates?

Have you read Surviving an Affair?