Brief history:
- DH and I married in 2007--had lived together for years prior to marrying and I believe it took me several years of marriage to shift from being a renter to a buyer.
- I'm 34, he's 36, we have 2 girls aged 3.5 and 1.5 years
- We both have a long history of LB's, even through our dating relationship. AO's, DJ's, and SD's have been most common, especially when our love banks are empty and our takers are out in full force.
- We have read Love Busters and His Needs, Her Needs. I am on board with MB principles and apply them--or actively try to apply them and sometimes fail. He agrees with the principles, but feels that applying them clinically feels forced.
- DH has been diagnosed with obsessive-compulsive disorder. That is likely neither here nor there for this specific post, however I've posted about it in the past and it is pertinent to our history as a couple
- No history of EA's or PA's. Marriage has never gotten the point of being in state of withdrawal, but we have definitely been in a state of conflict, especially after the girls were born and it became much harder to get in our 15 hours of UA time. Also, I find POJAing more difficult at times when it comes to parenting (especially in regard to DH's OCD).

My issue is this:
- For some reason, I am having a really tough time with step 3 in the 5 steps to romantic love, which is overcoming my love busters. DH and I have done the Love Busters questionnaire, so I know exactly what I need to be doing (or not doing). Some of these things have actually been quite easy to overcome in a matter of months. But some things--things that sound relatively easy to overcome--I seem to keep regressing with.

Example:
One of the things my husband classifies as an annoying habit is when I project stress about not being on time. I have become neurotic about schedules/bedtimes since having the girls, so when we are late getting the girls to bed, I become stressed out and tense. It's my reaction to the situation, but it doesn't do anybody any good, it just makes the situation more tense than it needs to be. I KNOW that to be the case, yet at the time I'm thinking about how we POJAed about the bed time and I seem to be the only one who cares about getting them in bed on time and how I'm annoyed about feeling on my own and BOOM...I'm grumpy even though I know it's not helping anything.

I get discouraged about how I feel like I have regressions despite knowing better. I realize that habits are difficult to change, but I really seem to have a mental block.

My DH has his own side of the street to clean up and I'm not going to get into that because I'm focused on my own behavior. But we definitely both have moments of regression. When we have these moments, I feel very discouraged, fearing that we have too much work ahead of us to get to this ideal state that I want to work toward being in. Sometimes it feels very far away.

I go back and read other couples who had trouble in the beginning (Markos and Prisca come to mind). And I'm not saying that as any type of disrespect--it actually makes me feel better that their relationship was not always perfect...they had several setbacks and still worked to get their marriage into the state it is in today, so that gives me hope.

Ultimate question:
How do I get through these situations where I know I'm likely to LB, and I even know BETTER, but the stress becomes to much for me and I feel like I'm going to snap? Do I walk away? Do I hand the girls to my husband and say "finish this up, I'm getting too stressed"? I need to do a better job of addressing these in the moment instead of LBing and then regretting it afterward.

Thank you, all!

ETA: I call this an annoying habit because that's how my DH has described it, but not sure if it could fall under the category of an AO. I'm not yelling, but I'm clearly angry that we are late for bed time and am tense and stressful, which doesn't just affect DH, but my kids see it, too.

Do you get stressed when you don't meet the bedtime at all or do you get stressed before the time comes up because you think you're going to miss it?

Are you getting any UA time?

It is one thing to feel anxiety about certain situations, and it probably is an annoying habit to project that anxiety onto your spouse. Having said that, Dr H sees that men are generally much better able to cope when a wife displays anxiety; but wives should not be subjected to their H's OCD-type behaviour. Men must find a way to contain this. That isn't to say that a wife can do as she likes if she's the anxious one, but that it isn't usually as big a problem for her H if she is.

However, the MB programme actually suits very well people who tend to behave, or feel more comfortable behaving, in a ritualistic fashion. MB encourages couples to set rules and follow patterns of behaviour that enhance the marriage. I just re-read Dr H's article about how any men who finds affection difficult, should practice affection as a regular routine throughout the day. It clearly demonstrates that the way to deal with the problem when our instincts do not serve us well, is to work out a way of behaving that overcomes the problem - to behave ritualistically, as it were.

Thus, the way to keep at bay your anxiety about bedtime (or anything else) is to work out a routine that gets the task done in a timely fashion, so that there is no need for your anxiety to arise. In other words, you have been attempting to deal with the problem in exactly the right way, by developing a routine that stops late bedtimes from occurring.

It does not serve your H's interests for him not to do whatever he needs to do to make the routine work, and then to get annoyed with you when late bedtimes cause stress.

It may be that you did not POJA the routine, ensuring that you and your H were enthusiastic about the solution that emerged, and if so, you should go back to the beginning and negotiate a new agreement that he is enthusiastic about. You need to persuade him that agreeing and sticking to a routine is in his interests, as a calm wife will make for a happy life.

If, for some reason, when it comes to implementing the routine, he finds that he does not like what he previously enthusiastically agreed to, he should not give in, because that will cause resentment. You should in fact do nothing until you come to a new enthusiastic agreement - and having cross, tired children rampaging around is likely to focus the mind on solutions. But the point is, he needs to see that, since your stress levels are alleviated by carrying out routines, and since he dislikes your displaying stress, a bedtime routine is necessary and he should POJA, and then work with, a suitable one.

He can't have his cake and eat it on this (although you must not say anything like that to him). If he does not want you to display anxiety, he must work with you to create an environment in which there is no need for your anxiety to arise.

It sounds to me as if you need a coach, through the online programme. It sounds as if your H is not approaching this problem with goodwill, and is getting annoyed with you instead of working with you. That isn't fair, or beneficial to the marriage. It sounds as if you need a coach to help you both with the "education" parts of the programme, and with working through the difficult and unpleasant issues, which love busters always are.

Do you see the Demand and the Disrespectful Judgement here?

The Demand (we had a POJA and it must be followed!) and the Disrespect (I'm the only one that cares) only feed your anger.

You may not be able to stop the thoughts from popping into your mind in a stressful situation at first. But you can certainly choose not to listen to them.

I still struggle with this sometimes -- Dr. Harley has said that wives in general tend to blame their husbands when things go wrong. I catch myself still doing this. It's a natural reaction. But I'm aware of it, and I'm also aware of the damage it could do if I were to allow myself to dwell on those thoughts, and I redirect my thinking. Instead of "I'm the only one that cares that the kids go to bed on time," try "It bothers me when the kids go to bed later than 7:00."

Notice that I did not say "It bothers me when the kids go to bed too late." "Too late" is subjective, and your husband may not even agree that the time they went to bed is late. Be very specific about what is bothering you, but do it in a way that passes no judgement on him if he isn't bothered by it.

Brainstorm ways to make sure they are in bed at a time that makes you both happy.

The best thing to do when you feel angry is to:
1. SHUT UP
2. Walk away

You cannot problem solve when you are angry. It is best to get away from the situation and relax, then come back to it later. It is better for your kids to stay up all night than it is to stay in the situation and eventually lovebust your husband over it. They will not die, and they will be much better off in the long run with parents who take steps to care for each other.

I think you should look into doing some relaxation training. It will help you to be able to face frustrating situations and remain calm. Read what Dr. Harley says about GSR meters here: How to Negotiate When You Are an Emotional Person

I would call it an AO. You do not have to yell for it to be an AO.

I do think that you should have posted this on your first thread. I just went back and read that, and this situation is complicated by your H's OCD. I've been talking as if you have anxiety as a condition, when in fact your H has been diagnosed with OCD, which is a way of managing HIS anxiety.

You wrote at length on the other thread about why your H finds bath times difficult, and why they can cause panic attacks. Is this why he does not participate very well with getting the kids to bed? If your anxiety brought on out of fear that he will freak out at bath time, and because you cannot manage everything alone?

I think there might be some gaps that need filling here.

You wrote to Dr H in July, and posted his answer on your first thread:

Are these problems part of the reason why the bedtime routine does not take place as it should?

Have you found a psychiatrist that specialises in OCD?

Bedtime is at 7:45--I was stressed yesterday when I saw it was 7:41 and I still had to get them in their pajamas and brush their teeth (which takes 10 minutes). So once I realize they are going to be late, I start getting anxious.

UA time is 8:30 - 10:30pm 4 nights per week (at home), but engaged with each other, not watching TV. Date night on Saturday out for 4 hours. Plus 2 hours on Sundays, sometimes at home, sometimes not. Sundays are our dedicated "family" day, but we still get UA time in. We also watch a show together on Sundays, but don't count that as UA time. Also, we are both early risers (wake up before kids), so we often get "bonus" morning time, but don't schedule that.


We POJAed a bathtime routine that works for both of us. I do pajamas + brush teeth. He does storytime. We both help with the actual bath and tuck them in. We go up at 7pm (bedtime is 7:45pm) in order to have enough time to make it not stressful. And he has no anxiety over it. Last night we were late getting upstairs (nobody's fault) and it snowballed. Instead of just being calm and rolling with it, I'M the one who became anxious and snippy. My husband was the one who was relaxed and told me that while he understands being anxious (obviously he has his own anxiety issues), my being snippy and tense doesn't help the situation.


No, DH is typically very good about following the routines we have in place. We were simply late getting upstairs for bath time, which wasn't his fault. I was hoping we could make up the time, but when I realized we couldn't and the girls would get into bed later than I wanted, I became angry feeling like I was the only one who cared. In my state of anger, I saw my anxiety as evidence that I CARED about bed time and my husband's lack of anxiety as evidence that he did NOT care about bed time. In reality, my anxiety was doing nothing to get them in bed any faster (and additionally, made the last 10 minutes of bed time stressful for everybody because I was snippy with everybody) and his lack of anxiety was him being flexible in the situation.

While I do think men have an easier time dealing with an anxious wife (and my husband having OCD should be especially understanding), when he sees my anxiety translating into me being snippy with the kids, then he feels I'm rigid and uncaring, which aren't traits he loves.

Oh, DH did find one other psychiatrist, but that psychiatrist wasn't interested in doing behavioral therapy, either, so DH decided to read some self-help books and apply the techniques. THat has actually worked very well and he's much more involved on a daily basis. In fact, last weekend I travelled to see my parents and my DH was on his own with the girls all weekend with no issues at all. I didn't get a single panicked phone call and he did EVERYTHING on his own (including getting them to bed on time )


Yes, I absolutely do. And that's almost the worst part. I even knew I was DJing him (in my mind) at the time. I didn't say any of those things out loud, but even my being snippy and...well, bitchy (my words, not his) because I was having those thoughts is obviously not okay.

Your advice to SHUT UP and walk away EVEN IF it means the kids get to be d LATER is spot on. That's what I need to hear. Because at the time I know I'm getting worked up but I'm thinking the ONLY thing that will make it better is if I just get them to bed so I stop feeling anxiety. But that's the wrong approach--getting a grip first is more important.

Thank you all, I'm going to continue to work on this and am starting to question if I have my own anxiety issues or if I'm just too controlling and need to let go. I hate that I'm causing damage to my marriage and am so stressed around my kids.