In light of some other posts today, I have a question that's been bothering me all day. As that post was edited and shut down, I questioned posting myself. Understand as the being on the "other side" I am in no way attacking or intending disrespect.

I have struggled greatly with decisions since separating. I have held onto the advice of Dr Harley and this forum of remaining separated for about a year. And I've been greatful for the advice as my past choices certainly didn't help my marriage. I know I have much to learn.

My husband suggested letting him come home soon after we separated and if he ever did anything again (ie angry outburst) then I could kick him out. I actually knew better at first but I have been questioning lately as we've been separated for over three months now.

Prior to the board activity this morning I found a Wordpress blog of Markos and Prisca explaining their history. He was asked to leave and not too much later was let back home only to be out soon again. This time he spent a few weeks in a motel and then was allowed back with the agreement if there were any more outbursts he'd be gone for a very long time.

I agree with what I've learned about this program, but I guess I'm asking why the hard fast rule of a year? Here is a successful couple that used this program that didn't follow the year separation advice. How do you know when it's the right time for your own situation?

It's pretty simple - if he's not doing the program, it's going to last longer.

Don't grab at straws to bring him home sooner without him fixing the problems; you'll find you are grabbing an anchor!

I dodged a bullet, Flowergirl. It was a mistake to let him home so soon, but I did it because he was so good at meeting my emotional needs when we went out on dates. He made me feel good, and I let my guard down. And I am so, so, so lucky that he was actually willing to follow the program and do what it takes to protect me. He could have very easily had been the kind of man who got home, and went back to the same ol', same ol'. I dodged a bullet -- I cannot stress that enough.

DO NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE I DID just because I got lucky.

Ok, makes sense, but I thought about acquainting him with this program and showing him my thread. Of course I can make my own decisions, but the advice given was not to show him this thread - that he would most likely just get mad and attack everyone. (In fact the post on the thread this morning sounded like an exact response my husband would give). If he looks at the marriage builders website though and sees the forum, it wouldn't take him long to figure out which thread referred to us.

It is because it typically takes months or years to learn new habits. In your case and the other current case on the board, both husbands are not even taking it seriously so there is not much good to be demonstrated. The other husband and your husband are mostly in denial and are still committing major lovebusters. They have major issues with anger. Dr. Harley says it takes about that long to eliminate lovebusters, learn new habits, ie: anger management and learn to meet each others emotional needs effortlessly. Well, your husband has not even begun.

That being said, you are a free woman who can invite your husband back to abuse you any time you wish. No one here can or will stop you.

here

here

Yes, you should not show him this thread. But you can introduce him to the program. I would suggest giving him the book Lovebusters.

Another good comment:

here

This of course is not what I desire which is the reason for more questions. It's very easy for me not to stand firm and get foggy in my thinking (like the post this morning that triggered me recalling the blog I mentioned), so I do tend to question and go over the same things again.

Prisca, I wasn't there first hand, but did Markos sound angry, demanding and combative like the husband today when he was trying to come back? Did he deny his anger and blame you? Call you "selfish and underhanded" when you asked him to stop abusing you? Dismiss your concerns about his abuse and blame you for his outbursts because you were not "cooperative" enough? Tell you your conditions were "frustrating and impossible?" Did he make comments like this:

here

Would you have taken him back in if he spoke like that? If you promised to stop making him angry by "cooperating?" Would you separate from Markos if he had angry outbursts like those we saw this morning from another abusive husband?

No, he did not talk like that when he was trying to come back. Talking like that is one of the things that got him kicked out!

He KNEW that his anger was his own problem that he needed to solve in order to have a relationship with me. And he treated me like a queen while he was out of the house, which is why I was so eager to have him come home.

He was leaps and bounds ahead of Flowergirl's husband, and the other case on the board as far as his anger management knowledge AND his willingness to do something about it. Even then, I took him back too soon. It was too big of a risk, as evidenced by the fact that I had to kick him out TWICE before it stuck. I listened to my emotions instead of closely following the plan.

If I had followed Dr. Harley's plan exactly as I should have, I would not have had to kick him out twice. I should've talked to Dr. Harley about what I was feeling, and had HIM tell me when to let markos home! I am positive he would have told me the first time that I should wait.

He WASN'T talking like that anymore, and he was going to the ends of the earth to meet my emotional needs and prove to me that he had changed. Markos and Flowergirl's husband are like night and day.

Not on your life.

Heck, yeah. And he knows it, too.

Thanks Prisca, I thought I knew how you would answer because I saw how Markos posted when he came back. He was contrite and committed to meeting your conditions. He wasn't angry, combative and he sure wasn't blaming you for his outbursts. And he DID meet your conditions.

I think your successful experience with an angry husband can be invaluable to others here and I hope they listen to your advice!

An earlier post that may have been missed from simultaneous posting.


Thank ladies. I know these things, but my mind and second-guessing nature are still my own worst enemy.

Good girl!! Yes, you are second guessing yourself again. You really do have good common sense, and I hope you learn to trust your judgement.

I wanted to clarify one other thing, the one year only applies to husbands who are diligently trying to change. It NEVER applies to those who are not because reconciliation should never happen.

Flower girl, I wanted to tell you, my XH did start to sound contrite, and had a call with Steve that made sense to him, but refused outside help. My nerves were shot after so many years of this and I did not take him back. My kids were mad at me for a while having to schlep back and forth, but they understand now. I have daughters and I am glad they understand now that they are out of this, that they don't have to live with this kind of strife.

The therapist my husband is seeing asked to meet me. It was not a couples session. I saw her alone. She wanted to hear my version of events and also discuss his state of mind.

He is going down hill and very fast. She's worried his depression is borderline suicidal. The only reason she didn't make a phone call was because he was in withdrawals and knew that was contributing. All his medications were stolen from his hotel room (suboxone and depression meds) so he was forced to quit cold turkey. She warned him of the dangers from quitting suddenly and gave him some doctor's names.

I believe he did get to a doctor and got more suboxone but not sure of the others. I'm very concerned about his health and welfare. It's very hard not to feel responsible. However, after the long years we've had and the former pain pill addiction, it's more than I can bear.

Did you email Dr Harley with an update?

No I haven't. I had emailed before (on several occasions) and my emails weren't responded to.

FG, I know it is tempting to want to save him from himself but that is not in his best interest. Don't hurt him by enabling him again. He is a grown man who is fully capable of taking responsibility for his health and welfare. Give him that opportunity. I think it is rotten that his therapist is getting involved in this way, but you need to not get involved.

Please allow him the opportunity to take care of himself. You are not responsible for his choices.

Please stop allowing yourself to be manipulated.

ML, no worries. I'm not jumping in to save the day. Just pointing out its hard for me after hearing of his mental state. Watching him go through it is hard.