My husband and I have been in recovery for three years now. I had a 6 month affair that resulted in 2 D-Days. Since that time, I have tried my hardest to help him heal, to be transparent, and continually offer support, love, and understanding. We have been through a year of counseling with Steve, although my husband quit participating around the 9 month mark.

He is really struggling with how to be able to respect himself if he stays and allows our relationship to heal. He feels like that makes him a "p*ssy" and a weakling, and sends me a message that he can just be run over by me. He's been re-reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and constantly refers to himself as beta, which I absolutely hate.

No matter how much support and caring I offer, he cannot recognize that I consider him an exceptionally strong person for being willing to consider rebuilding a relationship with me and working to continue our family (we have 2 young boys). I believe that our friends and co-workers see the efforts that I have made to improve myself as a partner and don't consider him a wimp, but the voice in his head is unrelenting.

Has anyone here faced anything similar? Or are we doomed to fail because he cannot heal as a person unless he makes a stand and leaves the relationship?

Thank you.

Sorry you are here but welcome.

I am sure this was covered with SH but just to be clear, did you provide your BH with just compensation? Was your affair exposed properly so that your BH could get support and ensure the affair was killed dead?

Lastly who was the OM? How did you two carry on the affair and what EPs were implemented?

Do you talk about the affair? Do you live in the same house? Are there triggers in your environment? Do you get 20+ hours of undivided attention every week? Why did your husband stop participating in the counseling with Steve?

What did SH advise you to do when your H dropped out of coaching and it was clear he was not on board with R?

Mrs_M, I would make very certain that you have followed everything on Dr. Harley's checklist for how an affair should end and how extraordinary precautions should be established to prevent another affair. Then it's up to your husband whether he wants to restore the marriage or not. It takes two enthusiastic participants to have a marriage.

Here is a radio show where Dr. Harley addresses a similar situation. I strongly encourage you to listen to it:

August 8, 2013
August 8, 2013
August 8, 2013

Do you own the book Surviving an Affair, the 2013 revised edition?

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Lots of stuff to reply to here...

I believe that I have been offering my husband just compensation. I ended the affair just prior to D-Day 2, after that, I wrote letters of NC to the OM and a few other toxic friends. They have been blocked from social media. The OM lives in a different town. I have never broken NC, and the one time a toxic friend sent a letter to me, I immediately took it to my husband and never replied. Both of our families were informed, and I individually apologized to each of his family members and expressed my desire to help him heal and recover, whether that was within our marriage or as we proceeded to divorce. I maintain strict boundaries with outside individuals, and don't discuss personal issues with anyone who is not female or a relative. We no longer do 24 hour time accounting, but my husband is still appraised of my daily schedule and any variations. He has full access to all my electronic equipment and accounts, and I chose to install a computer screen log/activity tracker on my work computer to offer proof of activities there.

We still live in the same house, and work at the same jobs. I have offered many times to move and change work, but he hangs in the status quo. Change is difficult for him, and with the depression and anxiety after the affair, he was on auto-pilot for more than a year, it seems. He just began medication to help in late July and is starting to act more like himself before the affair.

We definitely don't get 20 hours per week of UA. We have two small children, and busy jobs, but we start and end each day with some time together. I would say we are probably closer to the 10 hour mark. We have no local family, so childcare after hours is often an issue.

I do still have to travel for my work, but as often as possible, I travel with the children and a nanny or simply take a female chaperone for myself to help allay his concerns. I have even voluntarily worn a VAR 24 hours per day when I have had to be out of town.

I teach college as well as work in performing arts. The OM was a former student who transitioned into a volunteer colleague of sorts. The affair was initially emotional, without my understanding that it was even occurring. I considered him to be a good "friend" and we were invested in our work. It progressed to an online affair and then became physical. I would leave work and go to his house mid-day. I no longer have a Skype account, and I have arranged my work schedule so there are no gaps to allow that type of time anymore. I work hard to spend as much time at home as possible, I have greatly minimized my evening and weekend commitments, and have given up some jobs that required more travel or could lead to trigger environments.

I have read Surviving an Affair, and His Needs, Her Needs - my husband read SAA and then quit mid HNHN. He feels like the MB program is just brainwashing him to do "nice" things for me after what I did to him. He didn't like the idea of doing thought replacement and working to not vilify me. He doesn't think it is fair to work on meeting my EN after I did something so despicable.

But he doesn't seem to actually want to leave. He kicked me out of the house for about 2 weeks after D-Day 2 and since then we have been living together. We have a decent routine, and there are many things that I enjoy about spending time with him. However this lingering issue of self-respect and his negative self-worth if he continues to be in a relationship with me keeps cropping up. He recycles words and phrases that other people said to him, or that he has read, and uses them to berate himself. As I mentioned, we are approximately 3 years past D-Day 2. The attacks and traumatic conversations are far less frequent, but they are so debilitating. He describes our relationship as Venice - a slowly sinking building. He is so busy lamenting the windows and doors that are underwater that he either cannot or will not help me work to save the several stories that are still standing, if that makes any sense.

I am willing to be as patient as necessary. I understand that he can't commit to showing me consistent love and meeting my ENs. But I keep hoping that we can reach a point where he is able and willing to do that. I know that he believes that he will have no value as a man if he caves and lets himself love me again.

But some days are wonderful, and he holds me, and tells me he loves me without me saying it first, and I believe him and have hope. But on days when he feels bad about himself those are just evidence that he is a wuss. I wish I knew how to help.

I would put this whole post in an email and send it to Dr Harley, via the radio show address.

I think Dr H would recommend anti-depressants for your H. If you have really been through a year of counselling with Steve, and done all that you say in this post, then these bouts of self doubt should not be happening to him.

When you say that you travel for work (with a nanny or chaperone), do you stay away for the night? If so, that is hindering marital recovery, even though there is someone to account for your behaviour. It is just too triggering, and leaves your husband feeling too vulnerable, for you to go away. I know that I reached a point where I could not deal with one more trip. My H was forced to resign on the spot from travelling (leaving a whole management group in disarray) because I was about to have a complete breakdown. Your H is possibly feeling much as I did about travel.

Dr Harley has a "listen, buster" letter in his Q&A columns, in answer to a woman who wrote in about her H punishing her years later for her affair. It was a warning that she would leave her H if he brought up the affair one more time. I don't think you've got to that point, yet, because your H's behaviour does not sound quite the same as the man's behaviour in that letter, and because I don't think you have tried the two crucial things of first, changing jobs (altogether, from that company) and stopping travelling, and second, getting your H on anti-depressants.

Do please write to Dr H.

MM, these are the 2 issues that will prevent you from EVER having a good marriage. When a couple won't follow this program of recovery, the betrayed spouse's resentment grows with each passing year. I promise you it will get worse if you don't address and change these problems. Unless you create a romantic, passionate marriage, your husband's mind will go to the past and his resentment will grow. When the present is happy, the mind does not go to the past.

The KEY to creating a happy marriage today is a) spending 20-25 hours of UA time and b) eliminating travel. You can't possibly create a integrated, happy marriage if you are traveling. Not even great marriages can get away with that. I assure you that your crippled marriage will not survive on that basis.

This program does not work unless you follow the policy of undivided attention. So everything else will be a waste of time until you correct that and eliminate the travel completely. [or start taking him with you]

here


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi9000_program1.html

Mrs_M, thanks for your post. As you can see, SugarCane and MelodyLane were able to pinpoint two crucial things that are missing in your recovery. These items have got to be corrected.

I would echo what SugarCane said - put everything you have written here in an email and send it to Dr. Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com

You need to get off of social media altogether.

You cannot continue down this path indefinitely. This needs to change, and soon, or else your lovebank is going to drain well into the red -- to the point that you hate him and don't want to try anymore.

Everyone said there was no way we could spend every night together. Now I refuse to take jobs requiring us to be apart. If I have to be gone overnight, my husband joins me on site. Other people never bothered to ask so they did not discover their spouse could stay with them overnight.

No nights apart is 100% achievable. You must draw a line in the sand.

Thank you for the input.

Are there any BW/BH's here who can speak to the issue of self-worth that my husband is having? If you chose recovery, how did you overcome feeling like a doormat for not leaving after you were treated so badly?

I'm a BH and he will feel a lot better after he learns to be a good husband to his wife. I certainly did. If he doesn't want to do that it would be better for him to choose to divorce. Keeping a wife in limbo will crush his self-esteem.

Self-esteem comes from what we do, not from what our wives do to or for us.

Did you listen to the radio show that I posted?
Are you going to make the changes that SugarCane and MelodyLane highlighted?
Please contact Dr. Harley and hear what he has to say about your situation.

The key is for you to fall in love again with each other. That can be done if you follow this program. I feel loved and adored by my husband and have for many years. Because we followed this program. When you are happy in the present, the mind does not wander to the past.

If we had not used this program, I would be resentful and bitter today. Marital recovery does not happen by accident, but by DESIGN.

Here is what Harley says about that in Reaquirements for Recovery:

here

Thank you for all your responses. I spoke with Dr. Harley and Joyce on the phone today.

Please tell us what they said!

They feel that after this time and the work that I've done that my husband is essentially bullying me. He is doing "partial rewards" to keep me working hard to earn his affection, and feel it is time for me to tell him either he is all in or I am out and to put the active choice in his hands.

It's really hard to hear. I had hoped for something else, but I guess that's not realistic at this point. I keep feeling like he needs more time to heal before he can really commit, that it takes time for that level of trust to be rebuilt. But Dr. Harley feels like he will never choose that on his own, that time and my efforts will not flip a switch in him in the way that I am hoping.

I'm not prepared to face that kind of ultimatum. Several of our friends just announced their separation/divorce and my heart is broken for them and us. I really, really believed that we could overcome this together. These last few days have been nice again. It's so hard.