My husband and I can negotiate an "enthusiastic decision" to smoke cigarettes, but I assure you it will not make smoking healthy. That is all you have done here. POJA is not a magic wand that makes bad decisions into good decisions. It is disappointing how you are manipulating the concepts of Marriage Builders to justify destructive decisions. POJA is not intended to be manipulated to justify destructive decisions.

Not living together is destroying your marriage and the fact that he is so adamantly resistant indicates very clearly that he cares more about his job than your marriage. That is the crux of the problem. That is why you are here after THIRTEEN years in no better shape than when you arrived. When your spouse is doing something that is destructive to your marriage and he REFUSES to stop, that is not a signal to drop the subject, it is a signal that your spouse does not care about your marriage and should lead to separation.

I am disappointed that all you have done here is kick the can down the road. And - to my amazement - have justified it by saying you used "POJA.".

Like Dr Harley suggests, when someone does not follow his instructions, it stays on the front burner until it is resolved.

I understand your point and I do see the validity. However, this is the first time my H and I have actually negotiated any of this. In the past, I demanded he find a new job, he promised. He half-heartedly looked for a brief time and gave up because it wasn't what he wanted. I got angry and resentful and withdrew to punish him.

I see this as a stepping stone, not the final destination. My H said he sees it the same way. He is becoming disgruntled with his job. Last night he said he may be home in a few days instead of a week because since they moved him to the night shift, he doesn't have to be there for rig moves. He was happy about coming home sooner, instead of angry about the lost income. I see this as a huge plus and a step in the right direction. He has been unwilling to change jobs because he loved his job and the money he makes. If he is no longer happy in his job and can make good money at a job where he comes home every night and enjoys being home, it will be a win/win and we will have an honest chance at reaching our final destination.


I understand this statement is due to my passive/aggressive history. I'm not giving up or giving in. I'm giving us a chance to learn better habits and get reacquainted with one another one step at a time. Its a journey, not a race. For the first time, I am looking forward to the journey.


Things are already changing, because we are changing. My H is showing that he is just as committed as I am to this process.

So what steps are being taken to move his job search forward?

Great , good paying jobs that support a marriage take time to get set up. He should get ready and look now. Because getting the right fit can take time.

MelodyLane, I know everything you tell me comes from a place of care. Thank you for caring.


My H and I are new to using POJA and as any novice at anything, it will take us lots of practice to do it right. I didn't realize we didn't use POJA correctly and apologize for any offense as a result. I am happy we were actually able to discuss a touchy subject with openness and no arguments. And I believe we will learn how to use POJA correctly, over time as we practice.

He put a couple of feelers out and searched on jobsites.

I view this all as a needless distraction from the main problem which is his traveling job. This is why your marriage is still in trouble after being here for 13 years. It is window dressing and a complete misuse of this program. You won't have a marriage to practice the POJA in if you don't take seriously the problem of his traveling job. That has to be addressed and should remain on the front burner until it is resolved.

If you are unable to take it seriously and persuade him to leave this job, I would strongly advise you to email Dr Harley at his radio show and see if you can enlist his help. If your husband won't find another job, he would recommend you separate.

Thirteen years, tamak. It typically takes less than one year to create a great marriage using this program. You have been here thirteen years with a troubled marriage because you refuse to follow this program. It is really that simple. You now have people here who have been through the program who are willing to help you. You just have to take act on the advice.


The problem is not using the POJA, it is using it to ignore problems in your marriage. And you WEREN'T able to discuss a touchy subject, his traveling job, because you "tabled it" for that very reason.

Him having another job is not a matter of negotiation because your marriage will not work without resolving that problem. He MUST get a job where you can be together every night or your marriage will not make it. At home jobs will need to be negotiated, but it must COMPLEMENT your marriage instead of harm it.

What is his response to getting a job where he is home every night?

He said he looked on some job sites for jobs around our area and talked to someone who offered him a local job before, but there is nothing available in the oil field where he could be home every night, right now, because the oil field has slowed down and good jobs are scarce at the present time, but he was still looking. I did keep it on the front burner and mentioned how nice it will be when he's home every night and the things we could do together and I asked often if he was still looking or talked to anyone new. He would agree with me that it would be nice to be home every night and he would like to have the flexibility to do the things together I mentioned, although he does like having 2 full weeks off at a time. He was sincere and open in those conversations. But when I asked how the search was going, he looked sad and defeated every time he said he hadn't had any luck and he would shut down and pull away. I don't think he was shutting down and pulling away because he doesn't want to find another job. I think it was because he didn't want to disappoint me and with my history of AOs, I think he felt defensive, waiting for me to lash out at him for not following through on his promise.

I wanted to show him that I am trying to change my reactions and responses so he will feel safe to open up to me, no matter what the subject of conversation. He has been under a lot of stress lately and I didn't want to be the source of more. I believe he did do what he said. I even brought it up to the friend who'd offered him a job a while back, asking if my H had talked to him. He confirmed what my H told me that its really tough right now that he's lucky to still have the job he has and its probably going to be some time before things pick up again and jobs become available around here.

It seemed to me, under those circumstances, it would not be conducive to reconnecting and improving our relationship for me to continue pushing the issue.

It is conducive to keep it on the front burner until it is resolved. Since he works in the oil business, he should be a) looking into refinery jobs and b) another occupation entirely.

He should be spending all of his free time looking for solutions.

What about you moving there to be with him?


Of course you should avoid lovebusters. That doesn't mean you don't keep the MAIN PROBLEM on the front burner.

Don't forget to look outside the oil field for jobs. The skills for oil jobs are transferable to a number of fields. Y'all need to look at his total skill set. Think A about utility manufacture, welding, cable, facility maintenance, etc.

I think it would be helpful if my H gives his side of things, especially concerning the job issue to give a better over all picture of our situation. I have requested he do this. He read my entire thread and is considering it.

How can it help? Do you think there are magic arguments that will change the fact that his job is bad for your marriage?

Do you think it helps if a smoker explains to his doctor why he really can not bring himself to quit? Do you think that mitigates anything, or do you think his health will suffer just the same as if he had no reasons at all to continue smoking?

Explaining it doesn't change the fact that it is bad for your marriage, and your marriage will never improve while he stays with that job.

What would help is if he found another job. He doesn't need to hear that again because he knows this. There is no point in asking him to come here and give us "his side." We already have the facts. The solution is to find a job that complements your marriage.

Wow, maybe my H is right and this place is too judgmental. All I receive is criticism and judgment. It never seems to occur to any of you that I am trying. My H is trying. I asked him to come post his side so he could get a feel for this site and we could get advice TOGETHER. Lord have mercy! I don't know how in the sam hill any of you managed to have a loving marriage lacking disrespectful judgments when that is all I have received. You people are so quick to assume the worst in everything I say, you have missed all the good things. And by the way, I am doing EXACTLY what Steve Harley told me to do back in those sessions. He told me to focus on connectedness so my H will want to be home every night. I will take his positive advice over all the negative stuff I keep getting here, thank you very much. Following his advice is having a positive impact on our relationship. And that is the point at the end of the day....a better relationship with my husband. I think I'll stick with the radio station and Dr. Harley's books from now on. I have NEVER heard Dr. Harley or his wife talk so negatively or judgmentally to anyone or tell someone he doesn't want to hear the other spouse's side. In fact, he usually says it would be better if he heard from BOTH of them.

Tamak, I can see what you are doing. You are angry that we won't support your conflict avoidance and are lashing out at the people who are trying to help you. We cant help you if you won't take the advice. You have been on this board for 13 years, my friend, with no improvement. Isn't it time to take another approach?

We don't need to hear your husbands "side," he needs to hear us and start taking the advice. His marriage is a mess, after all. The only thing we want to hear from him is that he is moving heaven and earth to get in a position where he is home every night. Anything else is a waste of our time and his.

As truly supportive people, we cannot and will not support more of the same conflict avoidance that has led you to this place. It is up to you to decide if you want to pick up the tools or not.

My H is finally willing to come to this site for the first time and I thought he would be welcomed and encouraged. Not basically told to stay away! Now I don't want him to come. He would feel so judged and unwelcome he would probably be unhappy with me for convincing him to come. We don't need that when we are finally learning to quit letting outside people and things affect our relationship.

He will be encouraged to follow the advice. If he wants that, then you should send him here. If you want us to support and endorse more conflict avoidance, then you should not send him here because he won't get that.

All I did was point out the illogic of your thinking. There is no emotional context. I am not judging anything, and quite frankly, this doesn't even rise to the level that I would say I really feel anything at all.

It's kind of like coming upon somebody stuck at the side of the road. It is obvious what needs to be done, but if the person tells you "I'm waiting for Godot". What is there to say in reply? There is no judgement involved. I just see a hopeless situation because you don't really want anything.

MelodyLane

You seem so sure that you are right and I am wrong that you are not even 'listening'. Either that or you don't think Steve Harley knows what he is talking about. I didn't follow his advice back then, but I am following it now.

I have told you REPEATEDLY my H is looking for a job and you keep repeating there is nothing to be done till he his home every night. I will repeat what he asked me last night, when we were talking about this thread. "What am I suppose to do? Quit today, so I can be home every night regardless of not having another job? Then what? We lose our house and vehicles and everything else because we can't pay for them? And THAT is suppose to bring us closer together?"

You keep saying there is no magic wand or magic words or phrase. Well there is none of that for finding a job on the spot, either. It takes time and patience. This is the first time my husband has ever actually LOOKED for another job. I am not about to be like the rest of you and tell him his efforts are not good enough. I am THRILLED he is finally putting effort he has never put in before. That is a positive step forward, since you don't seem to get that.

Yes, I am angry with you. You have very narrow vision and refuse to see the big picture. My husband and I are communicating better. He is opening up to me. I am not having angry outbursts. He is looking for a job where he can be home every night. He WANTS to be home every night. But because we can't make everything happen right now, the way you think it should, you keep saying we can't be helped.
How is that helpful?!