See, ICs ruin marriages.

That is not what Dr. Harley said. He said Plan A as long as you can.

Listen to the show again.
Get your wife a gift.
Halt the divorce.
Read Markos posts.
Plan a better date. Entice her.

The problem is that this is the same therapist that was our marriage coucilor... he thinks my wife is nuts and wants to protect me from her.

Please help me... specifically what should I say about this divorce? Everything I do seems to come off as disrespectful.

Being an MC doesn't make a difference. Did you read the article Brain Hurts Posted?

Did you listen to the clips in here or read the articles in here?

you struggle because you are not studying the plan materials. You keep asking questions that were just answered.

I have been with my wife almost all day...so I can't read all the clips. This is the MC that put us on the MB program...but his view is that if I don't give my wife what she wants, she might go crazy again... accuse me of child sexual abuse or something like that where they don't even ask questions before locking you up...so he has put the scare in me even more. His view also that her willingness for her to divorce is a gift and I should take it and go find someone else.

Anyway... here is how the party went, she was real nice to me and we talked a little and had fun. I also found a couple men to talk to. As we were leaving a married woman we know was talking to me. When we got home, I could tell she was annoyed by that and she said "why don't you go for her"

If you are unsure what advice to follow, write Dr. Harley. He and Mrs. Joyce will be happy to clarify.

I did send them a note and am waiting for a reply. For now, when she wants to talk about the divorce, I think I'll stall her....want to have a drink and play a game? What do you want for Christmas?

By the way... today I found out about a big deception... every day this week, I have been telling her that our deposit had not hit the accout... I was about to call the bank and finally she told me that she took the money. I told her I wasn't mad but I felt really hurt that she was dishonest with me all week. She DEFINITELY is someone that cannot be trusted... which is why I am scared. I just caught her looking at my cell phone code when I typed it in tonight.

Did you ask her why she lied about it all week? What did she say?

she said that she took it because she was planning to ask for divorce... I think she was wanting to stockpile the money because she did not know how I would react... perhaps she thought I would make her leave the house...

I have another question /comment... regarding the kids.

My 7 year old told me people as school say they are glad he is a back and ask him where he went last year. He told me he lies and tells them that he went on vacation. He told me that he was embarrassed to tell the truth about his mom. What do I do... I am having trouble encouraging him to lie... I also don't want him to feel embarrassed about anything... the truth is that the whole world pretty much knows what mom did.

The other thing I will say.. for the past couple days, my wife has started to be a better mom. She has been supporting my parenting.. she is even starting to show concern about the asthma.. she did not for my son to take his inhaler, but she did encourage him to take it this time.. he still refused. But she has been so much nicer to me and originally I thought her asking for a divorce was a blessing... but after the last couple days, I don't want a divorce... she has been a bit of a different person.

When I put the pieces of the puzzle together though... I think I have figured out what is going on!!!!!

Her #1 emotional need is family commitment.. guess what is going on?? it's so obvious.

She want to get a divorce.. but she suggested that we live in the same neighborhood. She even said tonight that she wanted us to get along so that I could be there to help her with the children. She obviously wants to set this divorce up so that I still meet this very important emotional need for her.

She is trying to manipulate me to do this for her.

He doesn't know how to follow the program though. You never follow a spouse's wishes blindly because that doesn't halt their destructiveness at all. Yes WWs make serious allegations sometimes. If that's a real concern you record all conversations with her, keep a VAR on you or go into Plan B where you wait for her to unfog. I don't see any reason why you can't plan A but it is a tough gig.

This is wifedivorcing's thread. His wife was poised to move in with OM and became vicious when WD did not agree to every wayward's fantasy - the buddy divorce. His is the most masterful plan A I have ever seen. He won her back and they are happily recovering today.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2797740&page=1

It shows the best and worst of plan A. How empowering it is, how effective, but it also shows what a trial and even a danger it is.

We warned WD that it appeared his wife seemed poised to make serious false allegations against him. Because he was an armed officer and she joined forces with corrupt officers that meant even with precautions he had a very bad few days. Most people avoid that with precautions and even WD prevailed. Quite spectacularly.

If you want to take your therapist's advice and divorce, then stop talking to her about it, do it and forget about her. But it's your decision, not his.

Plan A is doable, but you can't support her destructive intentions and plan A at the same time. Plan A opposes what she wants. What you are doing is the confused version of MB, plan C, which is just a drawn out death of a thousand cuts in which you get jerked around by Jekyll and Hyde and support her delusions that you don't love her much and you're much better as friends.

Read WDs adventure in which he persuaded his wife no one cared as much he did and decide if you are all in with plan A.

If not, stop the divorce lapdog blogger routine and have your lawyer send her the divorce info as you move on.

Ok...wow... I can't possibly hide in the bathroom long enough to read all of this now but I'll try.

I do want to save my marriage... but it's hard to come to terms what the risk really is that I am facing.

Yes... she definitely is in the position of let's divorce, you do all the work to make it happen, and make it as comfortable for me as possible.

Her lawyer had counter sued me for divorce, so I don't think I should just drop my divorce petition.. that would then put her in control which I don't want to do.

I was thinking of the following strategy...
1. Ask my lawyer to postpone or cancel any pending court dates... and I don't know what can/ cannot be done.
2. Go about life... go Christmas shopping for her, continue doing everything together, talk about family stuff just as if nothing was going on.
3. If she asks me to do divorce stuff... just say, sure.. wanna drink? Let's play cards? Let's chat... how was your day? Bla, bla... last night, I think she would have wanted to... I just fell asleep.

This morning was weird... she was online looking at some jobs in state A, and then she looked at some in state C. I wonder if she has some fantasy about moving up there or OM moving here, but she just doesn't know.

I kinda wish I knew if this divorce thing is just because she hates my guts or if she is plotting with OM to get together. It seems like probably the latter because she wants to have this nice friendly divorce. Also, she could just be thinking, I want out of this so I can have freedom to do whatever I want... but I have no specific plan... when dad has the kids, I am free to get on a plane and see whoever I want...

What I really want to know is if my plan is OK? Should I just say "pass the turkey" when she wants to talk about divorce or should I say something else? should I keep myself in the drivers seat.. or should I withdraw my petition and let he sure me for divorce?

Something else that has been bothering me that my simple brain can't seem to understand... perhaps some women on the forum can help me..

If my wife is a stay at home mom and she feels "trapped", or controlled, or not enough access to money, etc... she is just miserable. Why would the solution not be to just say "honey, I'd like to go back to work"... I'd say "thank GOD!!! how can I help you?

I'm not some mean Jerk who wants to control her or abuse her in anyway.. infact, all I have tried to do is support her in what would make her happy, but I just fail miserably at understanding her perspective. Even if she wanted to continue to stay at home but have more control over the finances, I have said sure... lets work on it together, but then she just goes off and we never talk again.

Just yesterday I said... do you want my entire paycheck? let me just give it to you and we'll see if that makes you happier. She said, that would have been nice 4 years ago.

To me it feels like she wants to blame me for all her suffering an unhappiness, but she doesn't really want me to help solve the problem. I am in a perpetual "no win" scenario.

Over time, it just becomes so illogical, and so fruitless to try to make her happy, I give up. I let her rant, but then never do anything because she never follows through. She seems to have a hard time expressing her feelings.. but she can express that a particular thing is bothering her, but she is unwilling to actually work with me on the solution.

When I say, she never follows through.. I mean, I could follow through and give her my entire paycheck... but it would then just sit there... she won't pay the mortgage or the bills or do anything with it... She won't sit down with me to go over things so I just have to put things back the way they were. She will just say she is too busy to do it... but blame me for being controlling with the money.

Do you see how I feel that I get put in this "no win" situation? What am I doing wrong?

What seems to me is that she has picked this lifestyle, and had this fantasy about happy she would be and she wanted the best of all worlds.. stay at home mom, but have tons of money, go to the beach everyday, have complete feeling of independence etc... that's kinda how life was set up for her in our prior state.. but the real world is really not like that. She seems to want to blame me for all her unhappiness.

the kids have picked it up as well.. and at a time yesterday all three of them were unhappy... this computer wasn't working, the TV was getting the show one of them wanted, my wife wanted her own show to come in somewhere else, they we all blaming me, pulling my arms, hitting me, and saying Dada I hate you.. solve this problem for me. I told them I was about to have a meltdown and they all needed to just stop or I would need to leave the house.

Do whatever you have to do legally to protect yourself. All I'm saying is you shouldn't chit chat about it in person with your wife. Let the lawyers handle it, change the subject and tell her she looks beautiful.



Her thinking is in no way that clear. It jumps around like a grasshopper. Her main priority is to keep feeling like the star of a trashy novel torn between two lovers.



Not a bad response at all. Or 'you look beautiful' or 'that's too heartbreaking to discuss' or 'my lawyer handles that. I just want to make the most of you while I still have you, I'm going out to buy delicious food for tonight'.

Essentially she wants two things from those discussions: either to hurt you and make you feel powerless or to get an admission that you don't care either so she can take yet another complaint about your loveless marriage to OM. Of course the idea that you will always pine for her on the back boiler is appealing too because OM can't meet all her needs.


One successful plan A poster, I think it was Mr Wondering, told his wife he was happy too woo her back and accept friendship for now, but he wouldn't be around forever. This might be worth your while spelling out. Given her reaction to other women, it's clear she's enjoying your plan A effort and shee really wants you on that back burner worshipping her for life.

Maybe something like: "I haven't been totally honest with you. I don't want this divorce at all because I love you far too much, and am far too attracted to you to ever be just friends. For example if I remarried, I would never expect my new wife to put up with an ex wife hanging around. I would lose you.

So when we talk about divorce I am panic stricken at the idea of losing you.

"So because it's too heartbreaking to discuss I will leave it to the lawyers. While I still have you I want to enjoy happier topics. Of course I hope you will change your mind, but please respect my feelings if you don't."

Your wife isn't currently speaking as a woman but as a wayward, so she is going to be highly entitled. Not the right time to speak about it.

However I am concerned at this idea that she has to go out to work in order to have a say in the finances of her own household. One of the main jobs in running a family house full time is streamlining and managing finances so it is puzzling to me why she should have to go out to work to get the money she needs to do a homemakers job? That puts more money in the joint pot, but also more expense like childcare! She would also have less time to plan out her household finances and budget.

If a woman has a high need for FS, she can make her own money if she isn't supported, but she won't be in love with her husband because he isn't providing for her. She won't mind doing the job most times, but she won't think much of the husband. Such women are happier being single and providing for themselves than living with a man who will not provide for them.

My mother ran the household finances, using a system very like PoJA to agree overall spending with my dad before he left her to implement the plan as her work while he went to his work. She would offer to get a job in tough times, but he never wanted her to sacrifice this good set up. I know any suggestion that she get a job to have a financial vote would have seen her head for the nearest lawyer to claim her 50pc. She would have considered the implication that her work was unpaid and unsupportive of the household finances to be very insulting.

I don't have a need for FS, but I see why too.



She will have seen through this offer in moments. It is unlikely this would have been a good or cheerful solution.

Just tell her any spending at all needs her enthusiastic approval. You won't make any decisions she hasn't signed off. I would also say you want to reopen any spending requests she has made recently. Listen carefully to each one and try to give your vote in each circumstance carefully and enthusiastically. Massive FS deposits made linked to affection by taking her option seriously and being respectful. Speak to her as your partner. Don't just throw money at her like charity. It's hers too.