What are you tired about? You are doing great!! Just stay the course. Sounds like your husband has some tough decisions to make, huh?

My suggestion: don't go to counseling anymore. You don't need counselng. You are doing a great job and just need to stop second guessing yourself.

I think that's really cute that the TWO PEOPLE whose ox are not getting gored like the idea of "marriage forever." Isn't it so easy to believe such nonsense when its not their ox getting gored? Neither one of them have been abused.

If your husband does not want to get divorced, then he had better get off his dead [censored] and get to work, huh?

Since it is pretty apparent he is not going to lift a finger to save his marriage, my suggestion would be to file for divorce. Get that part going now.

Actually she said what she brings personally and professionally are different. So I'm not sure what opinion we got but I think it was professional. She said she didn't think one partner should suffer for the other to be happy. And that in certain situations (alcoholics, addictions, abuse, etc) sometimes it's for the best (can't remember her exact words). I'm not sure my H felt he belonged in any of those categories. He chimed in agreeing yeah those people need to change. I could be wrong on my assumption, but having lived with him for sixteen years I know his tone of voice.

So she did not say that SHE believes in marriage forever, but he did?

Does she understand and accept that he is a drug addict?


I dont' understand what this means. Can you clarify?

I guess I'm not certain either. But after he asked the question, she said her personal views were different from her professional views (at least that was my impression). I'm assuming if she gave her "professional" opinion then maybe personally she thinks it's forever. I didn't think to ask for clarification.

My H did think it was forever. I did too. He said something about his views changing, but I think it was coming from anger/bitterness about the situation he has been "put" in. He's struggling finding an apartment, affording things, and dealing with his back pain in uncomfortable accommodations. I believe he thinks he can't handle being "strung along" anymore, that he needs to go to his parents out of state just to be able to survive. And therefore thinking of needing to divorce because he can't physically or financially keep this up much longer.

It sounds like she has no convictions. I can't imagine Dr Harley saying he has a "personal view" and a "professional view."


Well, hopefully he will get it all figured out. At least this is no longer your problem!

The counselor likely experiences cognitive dissonance about Marriage. She was likely brought up to believe marriage is forever but her counseling has shown her some marriages must end for the health of one of the partners.

That sounds extremely irrational.

It is, mostly because people never take the time to think through the conflict and form a new, cohesive opinion which would be fine if she wasn't a therapist advising people.

But how often do we see this--people raised to believe that unconditional love is appropriate in marriage yet know they need to leave their abusive marriage.

Exactly why I stayed as long as I did. And because I never knew there was a thing called verbal or emotional abuse. I thought if I wasn't being hit, I should stay and love and pray. Yet all that happened was a lot of anger and bitterness.

Happy Thanksgiving, Flowergirl! If you don't mind, could you click on mod notify and send the moderators your email address and ask them to send it to me? I just read this amazing article I would like to send you.

Just did. Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

I recently spoke with a counselor by phone that works with addiction and he also told me my husband was an addict. And told me more about the characteristics of addicts. Very eye opening. I thought since he really hadn't abused the suboxone all these years and since it contained an antagonist to stop the "high" it didn't matter. This counselor told me that the narcotic still affects the limbic system which controls emotions. His dad was and still is what I would call a functional alcoholic. Made me think of my H as a functional addict.

We went to another counseling session which was already scheduled. It was ok but I still see "that guy", the one that just seems mad and angry that life isn't treating him fair. The counselors next client was over an hour early and saw him walking in with his cane. Our session was held over 10 min late (counselors fault not his) and this client was getting mad. Purposely loud enough to be heard through the door, she says to someone else or on the phone "Well if hop-a-long would leave on time..." Overhearing my H reacted and screamed back "Are you talking to me?" Of course he had reason to be mad. She was incredibly rude and out of line, but that reaction is just a reminder to me. He has to make radical changes. Yet he and the counselor congratulated him(self) that he didn't react worse as he normally would have.

I am so glad you got clarity on this. Your husband only switched addictions from painkillers to marijuana. His addiction was never in remission. I am an alcoholic who hasn't drank in 30 years, but it doesn't mean i am cured because I haven't drank in 30 years. Most addicts know the trick of switching addictions to throw off normal people. For example, an alcoholic might switch to pot or painkillers. He is still high. A drug is a drug is a drug.

Do you see what I mean? Even if he had not taken any pills or smoked marijuana all these years, he would STILL be an addict. Once an addict, always an addict.


So much for anger management, huh? So much for making radical changes.... Have you committed to more of these counseling sessions?

]
I would challenge this comment. He is not functional at all. He has dropped out of life completely. Probably so he can get high all day. If he did what most people do and got back surgery or any of the multiple treatments, he would have to give up his dope and go back to work.

But why would he do that when he can sit at home all day and get high?

I probably mentioned this before, but my husband was also crippled with his back problems a few years ago. [oddly, we lived very close to you too!] Could barely walk. Painkillers were of minimal effect. He had back surgery followed by a cortisone injection in his spine. He is fully functional and goes to work every day. He even does all of our yard work!

I would agree with you. I only meant functional in the sense he's not passed out all day, that he can participate in family functions, etc.

To my knowledge, I don't think he is smoking weed anymore. He doesn't have the funds to buy it and of course is no longer growing it. He agreed to give that up but has said he needs something for the pain. Hence he's continuing the suboxone. He has made an appt with a pain specialist. Once he goes and gets possible treatments, I'm going to remind him again that he would have to give up the suboxone.

Just so you know, addicts always lie about drinking/taking drugs.


I wouldn't say anything because it is not your problem. He is a grown man who can reject or accept your conditions. So far, he has rejected them. He expects you to change your conditions because it is clear he has no plan to meet them. Like he told you,


In other words, the problem is YOU because you are looking at him "thru anger and negativity." If you would only "cooperate" he could keep from blowing up.

Quitting the suboxone is the least of HIS problems. It is learning anger management, getting a job, supporting you, resolving his addiction. He is not going to do any of that. And why should he, when the real problem is YOU?

She doesn't really respect her clients or their ability to change 'personally'; but professionally she will pat them on the head in a patronising manner if that is what (they are paying for) makes them feel better. Which is a lucrative professional technique really; patients who never get better.

I wonder if your being in contact with him is helping in any way. He actually seems encouraged to do nothing by this enabling therapist. I think I've heard Melody Lane say before that addicts have a curious habit of believing that talking about problems is the same as solving problems.

He feels happy with his pats on the head from a professional and she has succeeded in getting you to join in with this pretence. You've given her a fair chance but you must be wondering at her methods after doing so. You certainly didn't fall for her lines.

But to him; you showed up, you talked. What more is there? This is all a win for him and he seems optimistic now he has enlisted help on wearing you back down into accepting a dangerous environment and being forced into having sex and allowing sloth, disrespect and mockery in order to (unsuccessfully) keep him sweet.

I wonder if your talking to him at all is a help or a hindrance. He greatly prefers talk to action because its always worked on you before.

It might be more encouragement to action if you looked at pulling that plan b curtain until he meets some/all of your requirements.

It will help him meet his goals if he is not allowed to punk out in talk mode. Plus he is destroying your love bank for him past numbness into hate.

If you allow him to nag and gaslight you over the next 12 months, and watch him lose it at counselling- you will not care even if he does change - you will have had enough.

You're more likely to be interested and enthusiastic about trying again if he's done the work BEFORE you talk. And you haven't been exposed to dozens of his 'predictable mistakes'.

Did Dr H mention Plan B?

Unfortunately I was mostly at this point before we separated. I realize feelings can change but I agree not like this.