From day one of our marriage (15yrs ago), we had some differences in many areas, but how we spend xmas and holidays was a huge one from the start, to which I basically just gave in after the first few years.

I'm not really here to ask opinions on whether I am in the right or wrong, or what to do, I am more just looking for opinions on whether or not I should be extremely ticked off (cause I am).


Ill save everyone the details of the past 15yrs b just saying that I gave up long ago trying to have "my way" for xmas, or a compromise for that matter.

This year:
Wife wants to go to mother inlaws (8 hr drive) to sepdn xmas at her moms. Her sister, aunts, uncles etc.. will all be there at one point or another. Most importantly, so will her dad (her parents are divorced, and for GOOD reason)

To summarize the recipe that makes this just another holiday I dread, here it is:
my wife, who is bipolar, cannot stand any amount of stress. Being there on her own with our 3 kids will drive her crazy after a couple days. Being there with her father there will drive her, me and everyone else insane after 1 day.
My wife DREADS her own father, and so does anyone else in the family. he is extremely arrogant, ignorant, know-it-all, RACIST, and just plain negative negative negative. Take that into account that EVERYONE in the house knows that he is driving everyone crazy, my wife stressing about it, yada yada ydad

I have to sit there and watch him be an [censored], watch everyone else get annoyed, upset, sometimes cry, and essentially sit there while everyone PRETENDS to have a good time. until the drinks roll out, but I DONT drink.

I have some anxiety to begin with in crowds, so when that crowd is inlaws who don't get along and everyone ends up miserable.... well I cant stand it.

BUT, I go anyway, or they come to our house. cause what I want apparently doesn't matter.

So, this year, wife wants to go down for a week.

I say, how about you go down for a week or two and spend some extra time with your sister (she is down from Scotland), and I will just come down for 3-4 days since I don't want to be there for that long anyway. ( the reasons are very obvious, cause even she dreads her father ). I even suggest that if the kids are too much to hand for her I can bring them back with me on the 27th or whatever.

well, as per usual, it didn't go over well. her answer was more or less " do what you want " or " if you dotn want to spend xmas with your family then don't ". etc etc...

I personally feel that going down for 3-4 days is already a compromise since Id rather spend xmas on our own for once, but no... she has done yet again another great job of making me feel like an inadequate father / family man because I am soooo rotten that I don't want to be in that environment for a full week.... again.

she uses every reason (logic or not) to fight me on this.

now, between all of you and me, to be 100% honest, I just want to be there for xmas day. drive up xmas eve, and home boxing day.... and honestly I think my oldest son would be right there with me.
why? well there are several reasons
its boring as heck, but I can get over that for the sake of my wife and kids.
id rather be working, oh well, I can make it work again.
but the uncomfortable, stressful, loooong 7 days that inevitably means me sitting there countind down the days that I can get home and just relax is waaaaay too long. id rather go for a few days and come home, and I wont lie... sit on my damn [censored] and relax in my own home for a few days before I have to go back to work.

but that's just me, and apparently im an idiot who doesn't do whats best for his wife and kids.

oh and I should add one more thing....

this particular topic is similar to one othe rissue that we have, and that is that I don't enjoy hanging out with her friends. im not very social and it drives her nutz, and we don't make much headway there either cause there is zero compromise.

at any rate, I figured I would point out the fact that in all these situations it all seems to come back to one thing...

she hates being asked where I am.

with that said, I think this is some sort of resentment from many years ago, because one thing I pointed out to my wife today is that I have not said "no" to going to her familys for well over 5 years, yet in her head she is "always" having to make excuses for me.


far as im concerned, it is simple.

tell your friends, tell your family, tell whoever you want...

I do not drink, I do not like crowds.
I will be around people who drink, and I will be around crowds.
But I know my threshold, and I WILL NOT put myself in an over uncomfortable situation for a long period of time just to appease someone who doesn't give a rats [censored] about what I want in the first place.


happy holidays.

Honestly, no. It won't get you anywhere.

Instead, I suggest you give the Marriage Builders plan a shot. Stop the disrespect. Stop the anger. And stop capitulating.

Can you simplify this?

Why are you spending Christmas with your wife's family?

We are spending Xmas with her family because that's what she wants.

Her family likes togetherness, big supper, big socializing, etc.

My family is not social, and more prone to small quiet Xmas with the kids.

My wife views that as ridiculous.

Her family (parents) have been a lot more involved with us and the kids than mine. So it's like she feels her and her families way is better.

If I put my foot down and say I want next Xmas to be with my mom, she will say " well invite her over, no ones stopping her from comming "

Prisca, which distespect? And by capitulating... R you referring to me giving in?

Have you considered using Marriage Builders? That is where I would start if I were you.

BASIC CONCEPTS

It's a great program, you should check it out!

Have you any idea how you can use the Marriage Builders programme to deal with this issue?

I tried on more than one occasion over the years to introduce all of the my concepts.

She just views it as being shown everything she does wrong. She uses same excuse to resist counselling.

Guess I'm answering my own question

That's not what I asked you. Do you mind answering my question, please?

Have you read the Basic Concepts?

Why does Dr. Harley believe what he believes? How did he arrive at his conclusions? Today on the show, the Harleys go through the ten basic concepts of the Marriage Builder's program.
Radio Show

hi ales, yes i have read the basic concepts.

Sugar cane, to answer your question, I would use the POJA to deal with this issue.

I also think the love bank concept, emotional needs, radical honesty, giver and taker, and guidelines for negotiation and 3 states of mind all apply to this.

she decided we were going there for xmas from dec 21-28th, she did not ask me. I explained to her that i felt she should have asked me but she said "i dont know why i would need to ask if you want to spend xmas with your family"
i attempted to discuss it and offered up ideas for compromise and she would not budge.
in past years i have said "ok we will go, but next year lets have xmas with just us, and that just starts a fight too.

to be honest, if it were only 3 days i likely wouldnt have even brought it up, i would have just gone with it to make her happy.... but a week in that environment is just too much.

it doesnt help that i just get insulted time and time again when I even try to talk about it.

im not "normal".

i am trying to tell her i really dont want to be down there that long, and she twists it into me "not wanting to spend xmas with my family"

First off, make absolutely sure that you never tell her she is wrong or imply she is wrong. Your scenario is a husband who is willing to do MB but the wife is reluctant, and that's a very common scenario. I lived it for years.

Rather than telling your wife she's wrong or pointing her to the MB concepts, I would focus on telling her that she is hurting you. For example, if she insults you, tell her that you feel disrespected by what she is saying. For a long time you'll have to just let her choose whether she's going to do anything about that, and she won't.

In the meantime, what you'll have to do in order to get your wife to follow this program, is to use this program yourself to fill her love bank. When your wife is in love with you she will be much more interested in how her actions make you feel.

So you can't start with the policy of joint agreement - you'll need to start with the policy of undivided attention, getting your wife to spend 15 hours a week with you so you can make massive love bank deposits: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2325269#Post2325269

None of the rest of this program works without the POUA. You will have to overcome that hurdle before you can get her interested in following the POJA.

In the meantime, I would cautiously stop doing things you are not enthusiastic about. Don't debate it with her; just tell her it bothers you and don't do it. But I would be very careful to be actively seeking (maybe even hyperactively seeking) to replace these with alternative activities that she and you are both enthusiastic about.

You might send Dr. Harley an email at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com and see what he advises.

By the way, Dr. Harley has an article (Q&A column) on the topic of the holidays: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5064_qa.html . However, I don't think it will be much help to you until you have a higher balance in your wife's love bank. Right now the problem is not the holidays - the problem is your wife is reluctant to follow the program and is hurting you because of the things she's doing. It's a bigger, more general, year round problem. And it is solvable!

The big problem I see is that you don't know what Marriage Builders recommends when your wife is reluctant to do Marriage Builders.

I would spend some time getting seriously educated with Marriage Builders. There is a solution for your problem. Start listening to the radio show daily and email Dr. Harley. Don't let this kind of thing go on for years.

It has already been going on for years. langaan has been here since 2006, and has written about his wife's numerous affairs, gambling addiction, and refusal to address his concerns. I don't know whether he has consistently tried to use MB in his marriage.

Have you written Dr. Harley?

Here's the main mistake being made. When two people try to discuss what's right or wrong, there is no solution. There is no big book of right of wrong, you'll never settle the 'right' way to spend Christmas

All you'll achieve is persuading each other that you think each other a wrong minded idiot. You feel that way, so does she. And don't expect any consideration of your feelings while that card is on the table. Around here it's called a disrespectful judgement and it makes poja an impossibility.

Take that negotiation blocker off the table by starting to at least behave as though your wife's feelings are pretty reasonable. I can see why she would want a big family Christmas, why she might hope this is the year it works out, and even if I didn't, she does.

While respecting her opinion, stand firm on how although it isn't 'wrong' to the universe overall,you are dreading it personally and the choice hurts your feelings. Keep it to about feelings, yours, not her wrong headedness. Yeah you might have to weather some lovebusters, but the main thing is not to commit them, or to simply point out calmly if her words hurt you.

Plus, you've phrased the alternative in the singular (there are hundreds of alternatives) and branded it as 'my way'. No salesman is going to shift that product and you are no salesman.

You keep this issue on the front burner, respectfully, asking her to consider what HER alternatives would be. Ask about her feelings instead of trying to run them down. Ask about how she hopes to handle her dad if she does decide to go. Is there any way for her to make a trip to her family home in a way that might have your enthusiasm? The day before her dad visits? Leaving before the drinking starts? Having a nearby bolt hole for escaping?

You could paint a really good alternative and say: when your dad upsets you, just know I'll be home with your favourite movie. Text me when you're leaving and I'll get lots of great things ready for you. Keep up the contact with affectionate texts if she does go.

I haven't read your threads, but it sounds like dad trashed his marriage over affairs, mum is an enabler who swept the affair under the rug, teaching the kids affair behaviour is normal. Like most girls who lose dad unexpectedly for no explained reason she's now obsessed with gaining the approval of someone too self obsessed to notice her.

You could be a really soft place to land from that predictable conflict.

Thanks everyone, I think I am going to write Dr. Harley and see what he suggests.