And you can have the MB radio show playing while you're cooking dinner or cleaning up after dinner to where your WW will hear it.

A good opportunity for her to hear what it is all about.

What do you have planned for your next date?

Also, do you text her at night? Saying "good night beautiful" or something similar?

Clever idea.

Awesome!

It doesn't sound like you missed any targets because her reaction is just right. Nice amount of shame activated. Good stuff.

Shame really only as lasts as long as the shameful behaviour lasts.




You are of course dead right, but I wouldn't use this approach with her it's too lectury, too 'I am right and you are wrong'.

While she is hurting from her well earned shame and feeling a bit worthless, it's a golden opportunity to make LB deposits. Try affection with something like "I am so sorry you are feeling bad. Do you want to watch a nice movie together and I can make us some hot chocolate? (smile sympathetically when she storms off) Or "I just can't live without you. It's that simple. I think you are totally amazing. " or "They are being nice to you aren't they? I specifically asked for support for you!"

Since your MiL sounds AMAZING, you could even ring her up while your wife is in earshot and say "look Joan, I appreciate you love her and are SO afraid of this guy taking advantage of your daughter; me too. But since she's here working on the marriage, could you take her out to lunch or something? I would consider it a personal favour." You can arrange a bit of byplay with her beforehand. You could even book a nice table for the two of them and have a bottle of wine sent to their table.



A WW just yanked out of her affair mindset is not going to do any of those things! You are still in Plan A so I would table any recovery stuff; offer it, leave the book lying around, but mostly she should witness your patience, cheerfulness and general fabulousness. You've killed the A and have her under the same roof. You can make lovebank deposits in a thousand tiny ways, in the thousand daily intimacies of shared living.

GOOD job stressing the Christmas party's importance. She won't be able to refuse your compliments when she's all dressed up. She will pretend to, but she is a woman.

There are many things like this where she can't bail on you. She must keep up appearances, she needs you as provider, she needs you as a dad. All lovebank deposits are unconscious. When you do something as a family, she will get FC deposits. It's nowhere near as good as UA time, but it will wiggle her into a place where she will eventually want UA deposits.

It's appetisers before dinner, almost. Teeny lovebank deposits, which will appear to have no effect. But they will; she will try, but will ultimately have no choice to reject them.

Good point on the "vision," I will try to sell her on that. I have listened to the audio show on my computer (she was wondering what I was doing but then went away as soon as she realized what it was about). She's still stuck in the mindset that our situation is "unique" to us and no one else. I think her exceptionalism is what's making her resist opening her mind to Dr. Harley's books and materials.
Thanks for everyone's support and ideas, they are very helpful for me to deal with this emotional situation.

Yes, although she complained about the party she is getting her hair done today for it :-) I'm sure she is looking forward to it. Our lives were completely intertwined before anyway, we spend most of our free time with our son at his various sports activities. That's why I was so shocked at this EA since there was very little opportunity for WW to be away from the family. (Forgot completely about the possibility of EA over internet).
I'll be thinking about the ways to be affectionate and loving. Even though she complained about the flowers she took some time to rearrange them. When she said she didn't have anything to wear for the party, I told her go ahead and buy another outfit, you'll be the most radiant woman in the room anyway (which is the actual truth).
What would constitute the end of "Plan A?" When WW agrees to a recovery and start working on making deposits to the LB?

Just so you know, this does not shock us. The reason you grew apart is because you were spending so much time with your son and not alone with each other. This is the KEY to maintaining a loving, integrated marriage. If you don't spend 15-20 hours per week meeting each others intimate emotional needs, you will grow apart. This is why it is so important to get out on 4-4 hour dates a week. WITHOUT YOUR CHILD.

Yes, I see that clearly now. Before this recent drama, we went on a few "dates" as a couple when our son was at events that excluded parents. We did some couples massages and went to restaurants and cafes, just like we did before we had our son. It felt a little weird and awkward at the time. Although we did get intimate afterwards it felt rushed since we needed to pick up our son at a certain time.

With our son, she would sometimes wistfully tell him what our married life was like before we had him. We were able to "just go out" to cafes, movies, and restaurants, without worrying about any schedules or planning. However, she never made attempts to do impromptu dates and frequently would reject my suggestions because of our son's tight schedule. Our friends say we really take the phrase "doting parents" to the extreme. They were so shocked when I exposed the affair to them.

She's resisting these suggestions right now but hopefully she'll be open to them once we transition out of Plan A. She scornfully said that my being nice is "temporary" and "fake" but hopefully I can convince her otherwise. Will have to slowly work these things into her schedule. Now that our son is a very mature 11, he can be on his own without any real worries.

So your son has sleepovers, correct? What a perfect opportunity to have date night?

Also do you have a babysitter or parents you can swap babysitting
With?

What do you have planned for your next date?

No, we don't do sleepovers... Too many issues and complications in this day and age (child molesters, etc.)! Very few of his friends from school do it, unfortunately.

Only reliable babysitter is my MIL, but she lives pretty far from us as well. :-( Will have to find neighborhood kids to do it, or leave son alone for it.

Next date: Will have to work on after this date (to the Xmas party). WW was resistant but hopefully will defrost soon.

Was the Christmas party last night? How did it go?

It went well, my coworkers were all praising how great and young she looked (they accused me of cradle-robbing after learning that we've been married 17 years, LOL). She did look great with her new hairdo and I complimented her on it. I think we had a good time overall. She was a lot more reserved than her usual self but made small talk, and was obviously flattered by their comments.
She wouldn't dance but it was fine with me. We had a chance to sit and cuddle after our son went to bed, and she was OK with it, but went back to the guest room afterwards :-(. She said she needs "time to think" and for me not to rush her.
Just received the "His Needs, Her Needs" book in the mail along with the workbook. Will need help to get her to read it, she said she was "too busy" to read the SAA book (I put on her phone already). I was watching some of Dr. Harley's videos and I think that may be a better way to start?
We'll be at my son's games tomorrow morning, I am trying to figure out how to turn it into an UA session. Even though it's out in public we will be under our canopy for 4-5 hours and can talk pretty much without interruption.

16th r 73rd is an audio version of SAA

Do NOT have her read, His Needs, Her Needs.

That gives the Wayward Too Many Excuses for why they did what the did.

The ONLY book is Surviving An Affair and the workbook discussed.

Here is what IndieGirl just posted on the thread just below yours, with an original quote from Apples.

LTL

QUOTE:

Originally Posted By: apples123
Also, in reviewing your thread, I noticed you were read His Needs Her Needs.this is the wrong book for a marriage dealing with an affair. The book you need is Surviving An Affair. (I'm concerned your counselor gave you a book dealing with the wrong issues. What kind of counselor does that.)


I would listen to apples. It is a disastrous display of ignorance on the part of the counsellor. They don't have any idea about the material they use. Dr H has said many, many times that this book should never be used in the aftermath of an affair. It encourages very poor responsiveness from the wayward spouse.

When a WS is vacillating between the OP and the BS they desire both sides to up the competiton and 'win' over their enthusiasm. If you use HNHN in a non affair situation you will be meeting needs safely in an environment where your spouse protects you from others and is 100 pc comitted and not 'unsure'.

In an affair situation, you will forever be trapped in a never ending competiton; a set up which the WS will protect and encourage you to participate in without any reward. And lie about.

That's why in SAA Dr Harley encourages you to snoop out a hidden affair and expose a known, confessed or proven affair whether it is concluded or not. Because it never is concluded properly without exposure. His entire affair recovery method focuses on ensuring the A is not only dead but can never be resumed. Trying to compete with it is impossible because it is not a normal relationship but an addiction.


Originally Posted By: Dr Harley

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure



Not 'oh if he's told you and given you passwords it will all be fine'.

He would take your safety much more seriously than you do.

Originally Posted By: Dr Harley

It is extremely likely that a commitment to remain separated from a lover will be broken unless extreme measures are taken to avoid it. That's because the emotional reaction of withdrawal is so painful




Originally Posted By: Dr Harley

There are a few, of course, who are honest enough to tell their spouses about an affair without being confronted. Guilt sometimes sets in right after the first sexual encounter, and it continues to build as one lie is added to another. Depression follows guilt and it's not unusual for a wayward spouse to even consider suicide as a way to escape the nightmare he or she has created. As an act of desperation, honesty is sometimes seized as a last resort, often in an effort to relieve the feelings of guilt



Even better if it also encourages the spouse to compete as in your case! Your husband has a wayward's dream set up currently. Both sides competing and confession relieving some guilt, with no exposure used to increase the guilt.


Originally Posted By: Dr Harley


Then, if all of that weren't enough, the unfaithful spouse explains that he or she needs time to "sort out" feelings, whatever that means. It actually means that the unfaithful spouse will go to the highest bidder. Whoever makes the unfaithful spouse feel the best, the lover or the spouse, will win the prize of the unfaithful spouse. So he or she spends some time with the lover, and then spends some time with the spouse. Back and forth, trying to "get in touch" with feelings


This is what happens in 100 pc of cases on these boards. I have never seen a situation where a WS has been able to withdraw entirely and permanently from the addiction voluntarily without any extraordinary precautions or expousure. Nor have peope who have been here a lo longer than me. Even when the OP is abusive, it continues.

The most remorseful examples of WS on these boards all credit exposure as being the freeing experience which finally enabled them to break loose from the powerful addiction.

Really, you would expect him to be fired with enthusiasm just on the very off chance that you could possibly one day forgive him. Willing to jump through every hoop. Most people would be overwhelmed by that chance and would not expect that offer to remain on the table long.



Edited by indiegirl (12/19/15 09:25 AM)

Wow, good thing, I almost gave her the book. I will read it first myself then. I guess the He Wins/She Wins workbook is not appropriate for my WW either?
Are any of the videos on this site inappropriate for her to watch? I think it's going to be easier for me to start with the videos with her first.

Have you watched the video on infidelity?

I was going to defer the Infidelity video until I showed her "How Dr. Harley Learned to Save Marriages" first to give her some background to understanding the methodology.
I think WW might be turned off by Infidelity video and resist watching it because she'll think it's judgmental.

True and here is a good show of Dr. Harley explaining the basic concepts and why he believes what he does.
Radio Show

Got WW to watch the first video introducing MB concepts. WW was attentive but made a snarky comment when I asked for her feedback, that they are just trying to sell their books. I said, yes, but they are trying to help people and the concepts will help us. She said she didn't want to or have time to read the books, but when I pressed, she said she will "consider" reading the books.
Otherwise, things are going better. We watched a movie together and she let me hold her hand and touch and massage her... Slowly but surely. Resisting setting up dates, said she didn't want to leave our son alone.
Any other suggestions for moving the ball forward?

Awesome Christmas plans - family is why she stayed. Get her to go shopping with you for son, so he can't come.

Don't forget surprises for her!

Actually, I have all the books and received every one of them for FREE just from calling or writing the radio show. They send you a free book if your email or call is on the radio show. They would give away everything for free if they could. Dr. Harley provides this free forum for people who can't afford the professional services and then he gives away free books on his free radio show.

Most of his videos can be watched for free on this website or on youtube. He gives aways all of his questionnaires for free. They are the most generous people I have ever known.

So tell her that she doesn't have to buy a single book unless she wants to. All she has to do is to send an email to the radio show and they will send her a free book.

Another thing you can do to move this forward is download the MB app [free] and listen to the radio show together.


What does she love to do? What about looking into a weekend trip - ALONE - going somewhere she would love?