Thanks for doing that. And she may not be able to get through to your wife TODAY, but may be able to later. Just reaching out and letting her know she knows about the affair will have an impact.

Four friends are actively working to contact WW, after I talked to them today. One is in town for the holidays and will drive by our house tomorrow to hopefully catch her before she makes her five hour drive back home, despite repeated rebuff. (She was the one who actually set up our first date!) I commend our friends' diligence and perseverance!
All of these attempts at contacting WW is rattling her. However, she behaved with less hostility today as she didn't associate their contact attempts with my coordination. We had a very pleasant evening on the sofa watching TV with light conversation and massages.
I was finally able to get through to my MIL. I was right, she was ashamed of her daughter's behavior. However, as everyone on this forum has already noted, blood is thicker than water. She again criticized my Exposure tactics and tried to explain the EA due to my fault. I didn't try to disagree with her, I just explained what happened when I showed WW's letters to WW a few days ago. It's hard to pit a mother against her child, that's for sure. I explained what I'm trying to do but it's hard for her to see it as more than just vindictive behavior.
Anyway, MIL has already had a big impact on OM and WW and she is convinced they will never talk to each other again. WW actually confided to her that she deserved the shame and punishment of the Exposure because of what she did. She also told WW what she did was very wrong. So I left it at that.

Good job on enlisting these friends!! When your wife's fog wears off she won't see exposure as "punishment." She will be grateful.

LWC,
I'm just catching up on this thread, and I am noticing that you are trying to educate your wife on MB. Stop.

MB is the best tool you can use as you move from the affair to recover, but it is clear that your wife is still in the fog and in withdrawal. Let her catch up on the principles when she is past withdrawal, and simply apply them yourself.

That brunch date you set with her was a success, and you need to multiply those efforts. Bringing up the affair and talking about the relationship is going to push your wife further away. Spending quality time that is mutually enjoyable will bring her closer to you.

I would strongly recommend you take a vacation together. A cruise is perfect as you can concentrate on each other without worrying about driving around or planning.

Can your MIL or someone else watch the bambino while you're away.

UA time is your best ally right now. Exposure is done, so it is time to start making those love bank deposits and spending a lot of time together.

Good point. As others have suggested, I have backed off on pushing the MB principles and am working on reading and executing the MB points myself.
I would love a vacation right now, except we just went on one right after D-Day (which, I can assure you, is not the best way to enjoy a vacation!) Cruise is a no go for WW as she gets terribly seasick. We typically go to all-inclusive resorts in the tropics which is similar, no worrying about planning or logistics once we get there.
Will have to work on creative ways to do UA, like last weekend. WW is still very much against leaving our son somewhere to do UA. She doesn't want to do anything without our son, even if I secure a sitter... Any suggestions on overcoming this resistance?

I was able to convince WW to go on a mini "date" with over the weekend, I booked a couples massage and then we spent a little time afterwards together at a restaurant. However, she is still very resistant to the idea of trying to plan UA time together. She said she doesn't want to leave our son with a sitter.
I haven't brought up any MB principles or pushed her about our relationship. We've had pleasant family time together throughout the holidays, going to movies and other recreational activities together. She is still sleeping in the guest bedroom and refuses to come back to our bedroom, which really bothers me a great deal. I didn't want to push a "selfish demand" and so I just kiss her good night and go to bed, but it tears me up inside to do that.
Plan A is a lot harder to execute than I imagined. It's been six weeks since D-Day and I can't imagine doing this for "six months to a year," as prescribed by SAA.

I've been putting Plan A into practice, doing everything I can to fulfill her EN (my guesses, since she wouldn't do the questionnaires): being affectionate, holding hands, talking to WW. She is however rejecting any UA time, always wanting to include our son. She complains my efforts at being a better husband are fake. When I asked if there's anything else I can do, she replied, "You've already done too much!" referring to the Exposure. She still has not talked to any of her friends, despite them repeated reaching out to her. She is still extremely bitter about it, complaining that now she has no friends, etc. She is particularly upset at my telling our 11 year old son.
There has definitely been NC with the OM. After my MIL's phone call I'm sure the weasel has his tail between his legs. MIL is still upset at me for the Exposure as well.
We do spend a lot of family time together and I get a couple hours alone with her on the sofa with her every night while our son is working on his homework. We usually watch her favorite programs on HGTV and I give her massages every night which she accepts, but she still sleeps in the guest bedroom.
Any suggestions on how to get us to Recovery? I feel like I'm in a stalemate right now. Help!

Are there Lovebusters or previous complaints you can address?

It Will take time. You are only 2 months in.

WW's previous complaints were that "You don't care about me" and that I don't listen to her, and that I make callous comments. I have been working these things and watching what I say, saying as little as possible in most situations. She complained about driving around town so I've been doing the driving exclusively when we are together. I've been doing the little things that I used to do when we were dating, e.g. opening doors for her, carrying things around for her, etc. Little chores around the house like taking out the trash, washing dishes, etc. I'd now do on my own as I see them. However, these efforts were also what earned me the "fake" complaint now as well. But I told her that is for the long run and I'm working on them...
I think her main Lovebuster now is the Exposure to her friends and also to our son. However, that was central to killing the Affair right? She's really stuck on that and said she could never forgive me for the Exposure even if I can forgive her for her EA.

Have you read Lovebusters?

Exposure isn't a Lovebuster.

That's fine because you don't need her forgiveness for exposure. One suggestion I have is to enlist the services of professional counseling at MB and see if they can persuade her to engage in your marriage. I would hire Dr. Harley's daughter, Dr. Jennifer Chalmers, a licensed psychologist. Since she is a women, she might be more successful getting through to your wife. It is phone counseling and costs around $200.

They are very good counselors and have been trained by Dr. Harley. If she can persuade your wife to do this program, we can help you get through the program on the forum. I expect your wife to refuse to do the counseling, but Dr. Chalmers might have an idea about getting her on the phone with her. Steve Harley has been successful in that regard by telling the BS to ask the WS to have a session to explain her issues with the BS. The contact information is at this link: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html

I think one of the reasons she is still so foggy is because her affair has gone on for YEARS. The fog has become a way of life for her so it will take longer for her to withdraw.

Yes, I would love to sign her up for counseling with Dr. Chalmers but WW has refused all forms of counseling. We worked with a marriage counselor 17 years ago, but we both agreed he was not very effective. He basically asked us what our problems were and told us to work on them. Her words were, "I don't want to talk to a stranger." However, she has not talked to anybody other than her mother, cousin, and one friend. I don't believe she talked to this one friend very deeply about our problems either, as she is dealing with a recently discovered tumor. She told my wife that she's a mother of two and didn't have time to read through the email chain I sent with the Exposure letter, which my wife was happy about.
Our other friends continue to contact WW, and WW said this makes her even more upset every time she receives a voicemail, text, or email. I saw the texts and email she sent back to them, saying, "Thanks but I will contact you when I'm ready to tell my side of the story."
I'll try again with her when I think the opportunity is there but she has not very receptive to MB concepts, etc. We watched the Infidelity and Men's Needs videos from the site, but she said she doesn't want to watch any more videos. I conveniently placed the SAA book on our dresser *in case* she wants to read it. I've quit mentioning MB for the last two weeks now from the suggestions I've received on this Forum.
I realize I owe her no apologies for the Exposure, but it is what she is using as the reason for not wanting to get back on track.

Yes, I've read Lovebusters and I'm pretty sure I've eliminated most if not all Lovebusters now.

Any complaints besides exposure (none of us expect her to be happy about it)? Possible areas.

Below, I've included potential areas to think about. You don't need answer the questions here, unless something is unclear.

Lifestyle- where you live, the type of food you eat, the number of hours you work, how chores are divided, type of cars, vacations, etc.

UA- you are trying to work around her unwillingness to leave your son by bringing him along or spending time with her at home. While y'all will want to transition to actual UA, can you create a more date-like area at home - candlelit dinner (dinner area would need to be very clean and out of view of TVs) hot chocolate under in your yard under the stars or by the fire, etc.,- after your son is asleep?

Love busters- exposure is not something to apologize for. Disrespectful judgements and IB are the most insidious Lovebusters, consider if these may affect you. Markos has some good posts on what constitutes a DJ you can look up. Even "good" IB is still IB -gym time, church activities, etc. Are there annoying habits she complains about? Start eliminating those. Also, limit relationship discussion to a brief time once per week - frequent "state of the relationship" questions are very annoying. Her feelings will take time to change.

Extraordinary precautions- how are your EPs holding up?

WW complains mostly about past incidents and DJ's, going back to before our wedding. She complained about household chores but I'm proactive about doing them, e.g. taking out the trash, folding laundry, washing dishes, etc. I'm sure she noticed them too but she does not compliment me, she complained about me being "fake."
In terms of Affection, she won't let me hold her hand now either as she complains it's "fake" as well as I didn't do that much before. She would also only let me kiss her on the cheeks and not the lips. She does allow me to give her foot massages nightly, something she really enjoyed and complimented me on before. But now she would fall asleep during them, and then go right to bed after our son goes to bed. I do use the time on the sofa to talk to her about her day, her work, etc. She sometimes opens up to me but on other days she's a little belligerent.
We didn't have much IB issues, we spent a lot of time together as a family, and still do. The only time away for her is her gym time, but it's about a couple hours during the weekend. During week days she goes to the gym after I go to work.
I've kept relationship discussions to once a week.
My EP's are on point. The POSOM is on another continent so it's very difficult for them to reach each other. I monitor all devices and there has been zero contact. Obviously, she knows I'm tracking her due to the Exposure but I have not compromised my means and methods, and I don't talk about them. She is not very technology-savvy whereas I am.

The times she opens up you are making huge gains, the days she does not you are not really losing anything.

Sounds like you are doing a good job!

Is it possible your wife is depressed? A depressed person is often flooded with negative memories. I am by no means an expert on this subject, but it is not uncommon during depression to be harassed available negative memories.

I did not suggest you "sign her up," but that you get a counseling session with Dr. Chalmers. Dr. Chalmers would coach you in bringing her on board and give you next steps. I did not suggest that YOU persuade your wife to counsel, but that you let Dr Chalmers coach you in that regard.



sigh... I am not sending you to a traditional marriage counselor. The MB coaches are completely different. YOU are not very effective. I am hoping that someone else will be.


I don't believe it is effective to have your friends contact her. I don't understand why you ask them to do that. IT seems you often depend on others to do things for you. If you are going to do that, why not hire someone who actually knows what they are doing? You are now supposed to be in recovery. The biggest obstacle is your wife's motivation. But, you are not going to change that if you ignore the advice I gave you. Apparently, I just wasted my time posting to you, which I find very frustrating.

Almost every couple that comes to the Harleys for counseling has one reluctant spouse. They are very effective in bringing the reluctant spouse on board. I did not ask you to motivate her, but suggested that Dr. Chalmers could help you with that.