|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
My urologist told me last year to stop drinking tea because aggravates my bladder. I didn't need to sit around and have endless discussions about whether I should have a little or a lot or if I am or am not a tea-aholic. I just stopped drinking tea.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,294
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,294 |
Thanks Mel.
She has stopped drinking ... for now. But has already stated she feels upset when she knows she's being asked to never drink again.
Going back to your comment about thoughtlessness ...
I told her I would give up coaching softball, golf, etc whatever if it meant we would improve our marriage. I didn't say it to her as a comparison to her drinking but I'm seeing a comparison now just thinking about it.
She has said she'd like to have a drink or two if we go to dinner and/or she comes home from work and wants to unwind. She says she doesn't have to drink she'd just like to.
I know how much she drinks because she doesn't hide it. I'm home most every night especially here in the winter. Nothing to do. Even if I'm upstairs and she's downstairs I know how much as I hear every can she opens. Not to mention checking the beer cooler and recycling. On the weekends she may drink more than I know because I go to bed a lot of times long before she does. She'll sit up and watch shows with our teenagers.
She grew up watching her parents have a beer or two every night. She relates to it. Likes to do the same. The party girl in her is what comes out when she's had too much.
BTW one of her biggest complaints is that I don't put her first. The simple fact that I share some of our struggles with my support group (buddies, relatives, etc) makes her lose love for me. Or so she says.
Considering drinking is an issue gee tough I'm not going to cover up or enable the drinking habits.
Me: 57 Her: 54
M: 31 years
Kids(DS23, DD20, DS18)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,294
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,294 |
Quote:
). You get too drunk some times and do things that I am embarassed about. We talked about this, you get so drunk you slur. (FYI she had done really well on this for months and months until New year's eve). And you do hurtful things that flirt with neighbor guy and in my eye very inappropriately, dancing and wiggling around directly in front of him as if to show him your stuff.
Yes, she has an addiction. She is addicted to alcohol and has a dramatic personality change when drinking. If she doesn't have an addiction, then what's the problem with giving it all up right now? Any normal person would just give up a beverage or food that caused them to act so outrageously that it alienated her spouse. Well ... we really haven't been operating as spouses. Just co-habitating as parents. There was very little care and consideration for each other. I stopped doing things for her once the bad habits of hers came creeping back. This last event she was angry with me. I've abandoned her (I won't get into her role in this) as her husband and she was longing for some attention. Considering she started trying to warm up to me that night and I did the usual cold shoulder thing she moved on to anyone that would pay attention (aka the neighbor guy was there). Is it cut and dry? She should just stop drinking completely and never have another one? The desire to have one to relax isn't an option? For me I can live with her having a beer or two to unwind. I do. So long as she's diligent about meeting my needs (AS,SF). I cannot, will not tolerate the heavy drinking. If she isn't an addict, stops drinking for a certain length of time does that eliminate the addiction discussion? I feel like if she could do that and we could rekindle the marriage then she would never drink heavy and hurt me again. It hasn't always been bad. We made great strides when we were working with Jennifer. I never asked her at that time to quit drinking though. It felt like less of a problem back then. I certainly drink far less than I used to. I changed. She hasn't.
Me: 57 Her: 54
M: 31 years
Kids(DS23, DD20, DS18)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
She has said she'd like to have a drink or two if we go to dinner and/or she comes home from work and wants to unwind. She says she doesn't have to drink she'd just like to. That is great. Just ask her to stop for life. It's not a big deal. If it is a big deal, then you know the problem is much bigger than you thought. And don't make the mistake of asking her to limit it to 2 or 3 because having ONE will trigger the desire for more. Just cut it out entirely.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
). You get too drunk some times and do things that I am embarassed about. We talked about this, you get so drunk you slur. (FYI she had done really well on this for months and months until New year's eve). And you do hurtful things that flirt with neighbor guy and in my eye very inappropriately, dancing and wiggling around directly in front of him as if to show him your stuff.
Yes, she has an addiction. She is addicted to alcohol and has a dramatic personality change when drinking. If she doesn't have an addiction, then what's the problem with giving it all up right now? Any normal person would just give up a beverage or food that caused them to act so outrageously that it alienated her spouse. Well ... we really haven't been operating as spouses. Just co-habitating as parents. There was very little care and consideration for each other. I stopped doing things for her once the bad habits of hers came creeping back. I don't see what your comments have to do with my point. I don't care if you haven't been operating as spouses. My point was that when a food/beverage causes problems, a normal person will stop it. Her drinking is a problem. If you ate bananas and they gave you a horrible rash would you just quit eating bananas or would you find a way to eat 2-3 a day or just quit them for a while? Of course not. Is it cut and dry? She should just stop drinking completely and never have another one? The desire to have one to relax isn't an option? Just cut it out completely. No one needs a "drink" to relax. Normal people don't have to drink to get "relaxation." Normal people do not have to drink to have a good time. If she isn't an addict, stops drinking for a certain length of time does that eliminate the addiction discussion? If she isn't an addict, then it won't be a problem to give it up for life. IF she can't do that, then she likely should be in AA to handle her addiction.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
I feel like if she could do that and we could rekindle the marriage then she would never drink heavy and hurt me again. Your marriage is an absolute wreck because of her drinking. Why in the world would you even consider agreeing to drinking a "little" or drink again in the future? It is not the 10th drink that causes the problem, but the FIRST DRINK. The first drink sets up the craving and sometimes she doesn't stop. Why play with fire? If you get hit by a car playing chicken, should you: 1. get your [censored] out of the street 2. just play 2-3 times a week? 3. just quit playing chicken for while
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7 |
MrA, I am glad to see you back, but definitely sorry for what brings you here. There are parts to the story here that I don't believe you've ever told before. Stay with us this time and become a Marriage Builders full-timer. Get all the details out there and get the help you need. I feel like if she could do that and we could rekindle the marriage then she would never drink heavy and hurt me again. Now, you know that's not right. Bad marriages don't make people drink. You don't make your wife drink. That is her choice. It's just like an affair, right? You must have read it here a hundred times. People don't have affairs because of unmet needs, love busters, bad marriages, fights, or something else their spouse did. They have affairs because we would all have affairs if we didn't take extraordinary precautions to prevent them. Drinking is absolutely the same. Lots of people are in bad marriages and don't respond by drinking. Lots of people are in bad marriages and don't respond by having affairs. I notice that you are in a terrible marriage and are not responding by drinking. Your wife is an alcoholic and she needs to pledge to go into treatment any time she ever takes a drink again as long as she lives. Please talk to Dr. Harley on this. Please listen to what the posters here are saying about this. Drinking is not part of life.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,294
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,294 |
Thanks for all the posts Mel and Markos great to hear from you too. I continue to ask her to seek an assessment and advice of a professional regarding alcoholism. I haven't mandated anything as of yet. Without that I have little to back my requests that she quit entirely versus try to control her consumption. Right now she says her plan is to only have a few beers on Friday and Saturday. Anywhere's from 1 to 4. I'm putting my spy glasses on because now is when she'll probably start to hide it. If and when she fails I will then mandate she seek professional help. "We made a plan together, you failed, you have a drinking problem and are most likely an alcoholic. It's time to see someone. It's either that or I will be separating." Meanwhile I am being pleasant and letting her know there is something for her to come back to. I have my retort to the things she says that make her say Just give me a chance. Trust me. All babble talk I know if she's an addict. Signs of Alcoholism
Drinking to De-Stress: Many people develop a drinking problem because they are trying to �relax� from work and decrease stress. Alcohol is a sedative drug, and the more a person uses it, the more it takes to feel the same effect. It is generally a very slow process that creeps up on a person without the person really realizing it. Family members ALWAYS see the signs faster than the person who is using the alcohol. Many times, people will get drunk after a long day at work or a stressful event happens and the person will justify the action by saying �I had a hard day�, or �I deserve it�.
You�ll want to drink if you�ve had a bad day, are upset about something and you also want to drink to �relax�. You also drink to have fun and let your hair down.
Repeatedly Neglecting Responsibilities
Nope this isn't you. You are very responsible and have yet to shirk any responsibilities related to work or taking care of things at home.
Alcohol Use in Dangerous Situations:
Nope this isn't you. You don't drink and drive. And you wouldn't argue if you wanted to and I told you No you've had too much.
Legal Problems Due to Drinking:
Nope this isn't you.
Continuing to Drink Despite Relationship Problems: It comes to a point with a person�s drinking where alcohol begins causing or making small problems become large with friends, family and the person will still continue to drink. Typical examples that are reported frequently: fighting with family members because they do not like how a person acts when they are drunk or going out drinking with �friends� even though the wife or girlfriend will not be happy.
Alcohol abuse is a pattern of drinking that results in harm to one�s health, interpersonal relationships, or ability to work.
This one is a big old red flag for me. I've talked to you about your drinking several times now and have asked if we could just quit. You continue to tell me you don't want to quit completely.
Why do people choose alcohol to cope?
The signs of alcohol abuse may not always become apparent to close family members until the disease has taken a good hold on the individual abusing the alcohol. Alcoholics typically hide their alcohol. It is true though that most close family members of severe alcoholics report to us in the pre-intervention process that when intoxicated, they become belligerent or bellicose, meaning �of warlike character; aggressively hostile�. This is not something that an intoxicated alcoholic is able to control. This feature of an alcoholic�s personality is the hallmark symptom that his or her drinking has gotten out of control and that the person no longer has control of the alcohol.
I am not with you all the time. I believe you aren�t hiding anything from me. If you are I really need you to be honest with me about it. I am trusting you that you are and have been honest. I know there have been plenty of times in the past where I�ve gone to bed and you�ve continued to drink. But to me that isn�t hiding, that is just you continuing to drink what you feel is acceptable.
People choose alcohol to cope with life�s situations for two reasons: 1. Because the alcoholism gene was passed through to them via heredity; or 2. The person is trying to change the way he or she feels, possibly because of some underlying mental health condition whether properly diagnosed or not.
Knowing what your Dad did drink every day and quite possibly was dependent on alcohol this scares me. We know you have an addictive personality. Yep, I�m terrified when I read this.
Knowing you reach out for a drink many times when you are sad, mad, need it to feel relaxed or happy scares me. When I�m mad I never think about a drink.
Me: 57 Her: 54
M: 31 years
Kids(DS23, DD20, DS18)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
Thanks for all the posts Mel and Markos great to hear from you too.
I continue to ask her to seek an assessment and advice of a professional regarding alcoholism. I haven't mandated anything as of yet. Without that I have little to back my requests that she quit entirely versus try to control her consumption. This misses the point. The point is that her drinking makes you unhappy. The fact that it makes you unhappy backs up your request entirely. You don't have to PROVE that she is an alcoholic, it is irrelevant. You know that one drink leads to the next. Therefore, you should ask her to stop drinking. You are making this much more complicated than it needs to be. If she can't stop, that is evidence that she is an alcoholic. This is just a beverage, after all. If it is bigger than just a mere beverage, that is an indication of a bigger problem. Right now she says her plan is to only have a few beers on Friday and Saturday. Anywhere's from 1 to 4. This is just conflict avoidance and kicking the can down the road. Go to her and ask her to stop drinking for life. Don't delay.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
You are distracting yourself from the issue by quibbling over whether she is an "alcoholic" or not. That is not the point. This enables you to avoid the conflict, which just makes the problem worse. She is a problem drinker and her drinking makes you very unhappy. Therefore, you are not enthusiastic about her drinking. She needs to STOP drinking.
Since she claims she is not an "alcoholic," then giving up drinking should be a no brainer. When the urologist told me to give up iced tea, I did not hesitate, I just gave it up.
The fact that you are going through all these loops tells me you are committed to enabling her addiction. If it is not a big deal, just stop it. But, you know it is a very big deal because you are making a big deal out of it. You know she won't quit.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,294
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,294 |
"You are distracting yourself."
Yep I am fully aware of what I could be doing. But am choosing NOT to do that for my own comfort level. I have told her I would prefer she stop drinking completely. That the negatives of her drinking right now is the #1 problem we have in our relationship.
Right now I'm giving her a little rope. When she fails to stick to it and she backslides even a little then it will be easy for me to tell her this is more than just a behavioral thing. It's an addiction. It is always chosen over what should be far more important, us. If that happens I will mandate the drinking stop or I'll be forced to separate. I won't play second fiddle to an addiction.
To say her drinking makes me unhappy needs more context.
I have a problem with her drinking when she drinks too much and embarrasses herself. Slurring, flirting, etc. This has happened maybe 3 or 4 times in the last 2 years.
I have a problem with her trying to squeeze in one more drink when it is totally unnecessary and then chugging it because of time constraints.
I have a problem with her drinking continually as I attribute her weight gain to all those extra calories.
I enjoy having a drink or two with her. It is something we've done for a very long time.
I wouldn't be unhappy with her if she were able to control her drinking (assuming it is not an addiction). By control I mean no more excessive drinking, no more "trying to get in another" or chugging and limiting the number of days to drink.
The one thing that bothers me about our current decision and I told her this is that I still feel like the booze is far more important than me. And maybe it is. Maybe she really doesn't care if I leave and envisions herself with some other guy or merely just being alone to do as she pleases (addiction).
Last edited by MrAlias; 01/12/16 07:54 AM.
Me: 57 Her: 54
M: 31 years
Kids(DS23, DD20, DS18)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
The one thing that bothers me about our current decision and I told her this is that I still feel like the booze is far more important than me. And maybe it is. Maybe she really doesn't care if I leave and envisions herself with some other guy. It is more important than your marriage and that is the point I have tried to make to you. You ARE playing second fiddle to an addiction/drinking problem. Right now I'm giving her a little rope. When she fails to stick to it and she backslides even a little then it will be easy for me to tell her this is more than just a behavioral thing. It's an addiction. I don't understand what this means. An alcohol addiction *IS* a "behavioral thing." So what do you mean? One of the definitions of alcoholism is a behavioral change brought on my alcohol use.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,294
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,294 |
Sorry I'm not fully educated on behavioral versus addiction and may be confusing this with chemical imbalance versus behavioral issues.
Me: 57 Her: 54
M: 31 years
Kids(DS23, DD20, DS18)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,294
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,294 |
I'm quite certain if I tell her she HAS to stop drinking she will but she'll make my life uncomfortable. I'll get the cold shoulder because I'm not letting her do it her way.
Me: 57 Her: 54
M: 31 years
Kids(DS23, DD20, DS18)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
I'm quite certain if I tell her she HAS to stop drinking she will but she'll make my life uncomfortable. I'll get the cold shoulder because I'm not letting her do it her way. You contribute to the problem by agreeing to a "little" drinking, because a little drinking always leads to a lot of drinking with problem drinkers. This is what I mean when I say you are just kicking the can down the road. I get the sense that alcohol is very important in your lives. Don't tell her to stop drinking, but ask her to stop drinking forever because it makes you very unhappy.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
I'm quite certain if I tell her she HAS to stop drinking she will but she'll make my life uncomfortable. Your life *IS* uncomfortable.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,294
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,294 |
I'm quite certain if I tell her she HAS to stop drinking she will but she'll make my life uncomfortable. Your life *IS* uncomfortable. I still think I need to know if she IS an alcoholic. I can't work MB if she isn't working a program as an alcoholic. My life prior to 2016 was uncomfortable because I was dealing with her crap and was totally withdrawn from her. Now it is less uncomfortable because she is making improvements and I am coming out of my withdrawal. It is still uncomfortable because she won't quit drinking. Other than requiring her that she quit drinking I don't know what the next step is. If she fails I will know definitively what the next step is. I know that isn't how you feel I should handle this. I've been so uncomfortable for so long I'm not afraid for it to continue temporarily. It's better than having to deal with the anxiety of a separation.
Me: 57 Her: 54
M: 31 years
Kids(DS23, DD20, DS18)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
[
I still think I need to know if she IS an alcoholic. I can't work MB if she isn't working a program as an alcoholic. But you aren't working MB so I don't understand what you mean. You need to eliminate alcohol so you can repair your marriage. But you won't do that. Your wife is a problem drinker at the very least, which has the same effect as if she were an alcoholic. The reason that MB won't work with an addict/problem drinker is because they won't follow the policy of joint agreement. So while you are tying yourself into logical pretzels you miss the point. The point is that if anything comes BEFORE marriage - as alcohol does - it will come between you. THAT is why MB does not work in these situations. The program can't work if one of the parties won't follow the POJA.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,294
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,294 |
I'm sorry. I always thought the rule was that MB didn't work in the case of an addiction.
Me: 57 Her: 54
M: 31 years
Kids(DS23, DD20, DS18)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
I'm sorry. I always thought the rule was that MB didn't work in the case of an addiction. Did you read my post?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
|
0 members (),
260
guests, and
72
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums67
Topics133,618
Posts2,323,473
Members71,916
| |
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
|
|
|
|
