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I am honestly hoping she moves out for her affair because I think that is what it will take to really kill it. It has managed to survive all these years because reality has never intruded. Reality is intruding now, but if she moves out, it will mean the death of the affair. She will have to face the fact that she gave up a great marriage, a secure family for what? A big nothing. A loser who will never marry her, whom she will never be able to take around her family.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Yes, I have allies but she's not even talking to them... They talk to me but in general their sympathy doesn't help me much.
WW talked to me about doing an amicable divorce. But the thought just disgusts me. I can't imagine giving her half of everything I've worked for so hard for the past 18 years! Hearing her talk to OM about me has got to be the lowest point of my life.


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
Yes, I have allies but she's not even talking to them... They talk to me but in general their sympathy doesn't help me much.
WW talked to me about doing an amicable divorce. But the thought just disgusts me. I can't imagine giving her half of everything I've worked for so hard for the past 18 years! Hearing her talk to OM about me has got to be the lowest point of my life.

So sorry to hear that. frown


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
Yes, I have allies but she's not even talking to them... They talk to me but in general their sympathy doesn't help me much.
WW talked to me about doing an amicable divorce. But the thought just disgusts me. I can't imagine giving her half of everything I've worked for so hard for the past 18 years! Hearing her talk to OM about me has got to be the lowest point of my life.

So sorry to hear that. frown
Me as well, I'm sorry.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
Yes, I have allies but she's not even talking to them... They talk to me but in general their sympathy doesn't help me much.
WW talked to me about doing an amicable divorce. But the thought just disgusts me. I can't imagine giving her half of everything I've worked for so hard for the past 18 years! Hearing her talk to OM about me has got to be the lowest point of my life.
An amicable divorce is a wayward fantasy designed to relieve the WS of the guilt associated with her/his betrayal and the resultant ultimate breakup of the marriage. After all, if we can put a pretty little bow on it and all be friends, then it really is for the best, isn't it?

Don't take the bait. Divorce is devastating, and there is no way around that. Don't feed the fantasy that a divorce from you can be anything less than what it really is.


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More bad news: The divorce attorney wants $10K retainer and bills $600 per hour?!? I checked with my attorney friends and they all agreed that was quite steep for a single-shingled guy. I checked some reviews online and the guy has some scathing reviews by his former clients... (All anonymously, so it's hard to see how much is true but still).
I started searching for other attorney options and talked to another one today. This one told me things a lot closer to the liberal state reality than the first one did. E.g. even though I purchased my house before our marriage, the only part I can keep separate is the down payment I paid, plus the principal payments that I made against it in its first three years, and the appreciation since then from that (quite substantial). I will need to get another mortgage to buy my WW out, even though only my name is on the deed! Plus in our great state with community property laws, I will fork over all assets 50/50 unless I can prove they were all purchased prior to marriage.
The good news is that now I have a lawyer that will tell me the truth and not just shine some fake story on me to get my retainer. The bad news is my WW will clean me out (even in the interim, she can set a hearing in six weeks after filing to carve out the cash). Now I wonder why any woman would want to stay in a marriage if they can take half of everything so easily! This is what I get for being judicious with my investments and savings and paying off all our debt... For it to walk out the door like that and land ME in debt to keep the house?
Now I'm truly depressed! Makes me fume just thinking about this!

Last edited by LostOnWestCoast; 01/26/16 11:23 PM.

Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
Unfortunately, in my case the Exposure gave me temporary allies for a few weeks. But WW managed to turn her mother as well as her Enabler friend against me, using Exposure as the reason. They are accusing me of being controlling and vengeful and they are using it to justify supporting WW leaving me. Even with the information I gave MIL yesterday that WW is still contacting OM it doesn't seem to faze her support of WW's move. All of them say WW leaving me will be her mistake, she's a grown adult and we need to let her make her own mistakes.
I feel so down these days...

What behavior do you expect from an enabling GF? She is probably having had an affair herself. Same for the enabling mom.

There have been WW's moms that have confronted the OM and got rid of him and set their WW/WD straight.

Affairs are a war. Exposure is just a single battle. As in any war all battles must be fought to have a chance to beat the enemy.

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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
More bad news: The divorce attorney wants $10K retainer and bills $600 per hour?!? I checked with my attorney friends and they all agreed that was quite steep for a single-shingled guy. I checked some reviews online and the guy has some scathing reviews by his former clients... (All anonymously, so it's hard to see how much is true but still).
I started searching for other attorney options and talked to another one today. This one told me things a lot closer to the liberal state reality than the first one did. E.g. even though I purchased my house before our marriage, the only part I can keep separate is the down payment I paid, plus the principal payments that I made against it in its first three years, and the appreciation since then from that (quite substantial). I will need to get another mortgage to buy my WW out, even though only my name is on the deed! Plus in our great state with community property laws, I will fork over all assets 50/50 unless I can prove they were all purchased prior to marriage.
The good news is that now I have a lawyer that will tell me the truth and not just shine some fake story on me to get my retainer. The bad news is my WW will clean me out (even in the interim, she can set a hearing in six weeks after filing to carve out the cash). Now I wonder why any woman would want to stay in a marriage if they can take half of everything so easily! This is what I get for being judicious with my investments and savings and paying off all our debt... For it to walk out the door like that and land ME in debt to keep the house?
Now I'm truly depressed! Makes me fume just thinking about this!

Your WW may not have as good as a lawyer as you now have. Also no reason to admit WW rights or give up everything. Remember a lot of horse trading goes on so you may get to keep the house.

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Got more referrals from friends and families for attorneys and talked to another one. She said that chances are I will get to keep the house, just have to pay her a small portion of the community property contribution for the mortgage payments for first fifteen years of marriage. I can deduct the market value of what she would have to pay in rent to live in the house as well during that time.
She also said that the fact that there is an affair will impact the spousal maintenance payments as well, which contradicted the second guy I talked to. This despite the fact that we are in a "no-fault" state.
This attorney seems a lot sharper than the ones I've talked to so far. It's frustrating to have to do this also for attorneys while I'm dealing with all these emotional and financial issues. Seems like there are a lot of immoral divorce lawyers out there as well!


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
She also said that the fact that there is an affair will impact the spousal maintenance payments as well, which contradicted the second guy I talked to. This despite the fact that we are in a "no-fault" state.
This attorney seems a lot sharper than the ones I've talked to so far. It's frustrating to have to do this also for attorneys while I'm dealing with all these emotional and financial issues. Seems like there are a lot of immoral divorce lawyers out there as well!
_

You need to hire her!! Most no fault states take infidelity into account when deciding property division and custody. BUT, most lawyers are lazy and just want to do the least work possible. They will ask you to roll over so they can get their job done fast and collect their pay. It sounds like she is a savvy lawyer who will fight for you. It will also help you that she is a female.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Unfortunately I did more research and infidelity only matters in property division if assets were explicitly used to perpetuate the affair, or if the affair partners are living together. For custody it has very little effect unless they harm the children directly.
MIL and cousin are once again assisting WW in apartment hunting. Unfortunately I think she was overselling it (I haven't had our first intake consultation yet with this firm).

I feel terrible today, especially when I hear the way they talk about me. Should I avoid surveillance if it's making me feel depressed? I'm just sad that these people who were on my side are now actively helping WW move out, seeing her as the victim!


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
Unfortunately I did more research and infidelity only matters in property division if assets were explicitly used to perpetuate the affair, or if the affair partners are living together. For custody it has very little effect unless they harm the children directly.
MIL and cousin are once again assisting WW in apartment hunting. Unfortunately I think she was overselling it (I haven't had our first intake consultation yet with this firm).

I would get moving on this and have a meeting with her. She might have something up her sleeve you don't know about. In Texas, for example, infidelity is taken into consideration regardless of how assets were used. That really doesn't make sense, because most adulterers don't live with their affair partners. I don't know what it would mean to use assets to perpetuate an affair. Instead of searching the internet, just go meet with her and file for divorce.

Quote
I feel terrible today, especially when I hear the way they talk about me. Should I avoid surveillance if it's making me feel depressed? I'm just sad that these people who were on my side are now actively helping WW move out, seeing her as the victim!

I am so sorry you have to hear the harsh words of her enablers. If oyu and your wife get back together, she will not remember them fondly.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Yes, I have a consultation set up with her boss next week, she's an associate at the firm. I did talk to her about an hour.
Unfortunately our state is much more liberal than Texas, infidelity is pretty much a non-issue. In my case I don't have any evidence that it was a PA so it's even more difficult.
Assets used to perpetuate an affair would include gifts, trips or junkets, etc. that were given by the WW to the OM, etc.


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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Lost, have you ever discussed with your wife how your divorce would affect you son?

He will be traumatised for life and years and years of therapy won't be able to help...

I guess she loves your son to pieces and he is the most precious person in the world for her. Going forward with divorce, she is sacrificing your son stability, security, happiness etc.









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Originally Posted by Aerith
Lost, have you ever discussed with your wife how your divorce would affect you son?

He will be traumatised for life and years and years of therapy won't be able to help...

I guess she loves your son to pieces and he is the most precious person in the world for her. Going forward with divorce, she is sacrificing your son stability, security, happiness etc.

Believe me, that was the very first thing we discussed when she said she wanted a separation on D-Day. Her response was "lots of kids have divorced parents." She said she was struggling with it for years but I think she is choosing to ignore it due to the fog. The worst part about this whole thing is that my MIL and her cousin were both pushing this issue on her as well. MIL actually said she would never allow her to hurt her grandson.

But somehow now everything is flipped and they are "supporting" her because it is her decision. That is the part that really depressed me, how WW was able to revise the truth and convince them that *I* was the one in the wrong and "abusive" in the marriage. Her examples of petty things such as me asking her to drive us around sometimes (I had a long commute from work) now are being portrayed as "abusive." I just cannot believe it!

I'm just sad my poor son has to suffer through all this. However, he is a strong and resilient 11 year old and I really think telling him the truth helped him throughout this ordeal. WW hated me for doing it though.


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Instead of searching the internet, just go meet with her and file for divorce.

Actually, she told me that was one of the worst misconceptions about filing that you will find on the internet... That you don't actually have any tactical advantage to rush to the courthouse and file. The judges already have a long backlog in our system and they don't want people clogging up the system. She said since I'm not the one who wants the divorce, it may better to just wait and see what their opening gambit. What the judges really want is for people to work things out themselves (that's why there's a mandatory six month waiting period before a divorce is granted) and a lot of people reconcile during that time.
It makes a lot of sense so hopefully she is right. However, with WW's attitude since I exposed her continued contact with OM, I have a very difficult time seeing Recovery in the horizon.


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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Gotcha. Her attitude about exposure is entirely driven by her affair. As long as her affair is active she will be in the fog and be angry about exposure. If you can do anything to bust up the affair, it would make a difference. For example, if you contacted his parents, family, etc it might help. The key here is busting up the affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
Actually, she told me that was one of the worst misconceptions about filing that you will find on the internet... That you don't actually have any tactical advantage to rush to the courthouse and file.


I filed first but my XH asked to become the petitioner in return for agreeing to no grounds trial. My lawyer recommended I agree. Probably the worst piece of legal advice I have ever received. By becoming the petitioner he controlled the agenda. In his case that meant dragging the divorce out for six years. Would have been ten years if he had not made a strategic error (overlooked an appeal).

Being the petitioner gives you far more control.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Gotcha. Her attitude about exposure is entirely driven by her affair. As long as her affair is active she will be in the fog and be angry about exposure. If you can do anything to bust up the affair, it would make a difference. For example, if you contacted his parents, family, etc it might help. The key here is busting up the affair.
We did. MIL personally called OM up and chewed him out, cousin was there to witness it. Seems like OM's family has no shame. They also confirmed that he is currently divorced and not married.
Problem I have now is that route has been cut. Even though MIL and cousin disapprove of WW continuing to contact OM, they bought WW's line that OM is really not the issue here, *I* am.


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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Originally Posted by living_well
Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
Actually, she told me that was one of the worst misconceptions about filing that you will find on the internet... That you don't actually have any tactical advantage to rush to the courthouse and file.


I filed first but my XH asked to become the petitioner in return for agreeing to no grounds trial. My lawyer recommended I agree. Probably the worst piece of legal advice I have ever received. By becoming the petitioner he controlled the agenda. In his case that meant dragging the divorce out for six years. Would have been ten years if he had not made a strategic error (overlooked an appeal).

Being the petitioner gives you far more control.

Additionally - my wife filed for D in my situation, she filed on the grounds of "Incompatibility" instead of if I would have filed it would have been "Adultery Committed by Wife". That goes on public record, so any outsiders only really see that we are incompatible.

That does not bother me too much, but it might in your case. But nonetheless, petitioner does put you in a more powerful position I feel. I can do nothing to stop the divorce my wife filed, I can only wait and see if she has it dismissed...

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