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I've posted here on a number of occasions. I've been on the Marriage Builders radio program twice in the past 2 years. I am thoroughly familiar with the MB principles. I listen to the radio program frequently; I have read His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters. In summary, I've neglected my wife for our 30+ years of marriage. Now that the kids are out of the house, it is just us and we are struggling because we never built a relationship. My wife doesn't feel anything for me (her words) and I'm frantically trying to keep this marriage together. We have always agreed to not talk of our problems with our children, friends or anyone else and to keep it between us. I've kept that promise but now I find the need to talk to someone because we're not getting anywhere. My main love buster has been dishonesty. I believe that I've done a 180 on dishonesty and now focus on not hiding things and being open about everything. I also put most of my energy toward my hobbies over the last 30+ years of marriage. Primarily cycling. I would eat, breathe and drink cycling 24/7. I gave it up roughly 2 years ago because of the strain it put on our marriage. According to my wife, my addiction to cycling has been no different than an affair to her. There has never been any infidelity in our family but this addiction to cycling seems to be very similar to what pain an affair might have caused. As such, I'm treating it just like an affair.

I find now that I've acknowledged the hurt that I've caused and understand my part in that. I see how I've moved away from my wife over all of these years. Now I find that she is in withdrawal and is just like the woman that Dr. Harley writes about in the "How to Deal with a Nagging Wife" article. I've been sleeping on the couch since early November 2015 with no end in sight. I feel like my wife is moving farther and farther away from me emotionally and she is protecting herself from the hurt that I've caused.

We seemed to be starting to move forward a month or so ago and then I lied to her. She called me on it and I realized what I had done and acknowledged that I had lied and since then its been steadily getting worse. The neglect that I have put on her for all of these years has definitely hurt her to the core. We are on the verge of separating at this point and I fear that if I leave, that will be it. It will be near impossible to repair/fix/restart our life together if I leave.

I'm hoping to open a dialogue on this thread that will help me to deal with my wife and actually focus on rebuilding our marriage. Your thoughts/advice would be graciously accepted...DJ


I'm 59 yrs old; married to my wife for 30+ yrs. Started having marriage troubles 5 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 5 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
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Was this much the same issue that you talked about with Dr Harley? What was his advice to you then?


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SugarCane, I need to go back and try to find the programs that I was on. I believe that I have both of them on my computer. I've also emailed Dr. Harley on a few occasions and one of those emails was discussed on the radio in great detail as well.

In general, based on what I recall, we talked through how I neglected my wife over our entire marriage. We talked about angry outbursts which were primarily in my wife's behavior. I discovered that the angry outbursts were really driven by my neglect. Granted, the angry outbursts are very destructive and shouldn't happen but they do happen because of the frustration that has built up over the years within my wife for me hiding things and not being totally honest and not involving her in my life, etc.

I'll need to re-listen to the radio programs in order to remember specifically what Dr. Harley offered.


I'm 59 yrs old; married to my wife for 30+ yrs. Started having marriage troubles 5 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 5 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
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Originally Posted By: dividejim
SugarCane, I need to go back and try to find the programs that I was on. I believe that I have both of them on my computer. I've also emailed Dr. Harley on a few occasions and one of those emails was discussed on the radio in great detail as well.

In general, based on what I recall, we talked through how I neglected my wife over our entire marriage. We talked about angry outbursts which were primarily in my wife's behavior. I discovered that the angry outbursts were really driven by my neglect. Granted, the angry outbursts are very destructive and shouldn't happen but they do happen because of the frustration that has built up over the years within my wife for me hiding things and not being totally honest and not involving her in my life, etc.

I'll need to re-listen to the radio programs in order to remember specifically what Dr. Harley offered.

From the sound of what you've just written, you did not diligently and systematically apply his advice, since you do not seem to remember it too clearly. Is that a fair assessment?


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SugarCane, I'm not willing to say that at this point. I'll go back and get specifics from the radio programs/emails and try to summarize what was recommended and what I actually did...I will look for that tonight...DJ


I'm 59 yrs old; married to my wife for 30+ yrs. Started having marriage troubles 5 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 5 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
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Here is your show from March, 2015. Do you remember the date of the other show?
dividejim's show


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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So I listened to 2 items from the radio show. One was a discussion based on an email that I sent Dr. Harley and the second was one of the shows when I was on the radio. Both focused on the following:

Openness/Honesty
Angry Outbursts
Neglect/Independent Behavior

At the time of the email which was March 2015, my wife had kicked me out of the house. The summary of the show was that I feared being honest with her because of the angry outburst that was sure to come. Dr. Harley suggested that I stay out of the house and enjoy being separated for a time. I should continue to talk to my wife via the phone/email but that I should stay away until the anger problem was solved. The struggle seemed to be centered around my wife wanting us to "discuss" the horrible things that I had done to her over the 30 years of our marriage. When we would discuss these things, it would inevitably end up in a fight and would escalate to an angry outburst on both of our parts.

We are now almost a year later and we don't have angry outbursts anymore and haven't now for probably 6 months. I didn't stay away from my wife but was back in the house within a day or two back in March 2015. Now I don't have a problem speaking the truth to my wife. When I do open up, even if the item is something that is difficult to discuss, it does not escalate into a fight. I believe that I have grown to accept responsibility for what I have done and not justify my actions or argue with my wife to the death. I don't do that anymore and haven't now for 6-7 months.

Obviously, I am still not meeting my wife's emotional needs because she is still very hurt by what I believe to be what I am not doing now. I believe that she has let go of the hurt that I've caused in the past but now she is more bothered by the fact that I'm not doing anything actively to rebuild our marriage.

l had a real "awakening" back at Christmas just over a month ago and fully realized the hurt that I have caused. Things seemed to be going much better and then when we were cleaning the house up after the Christmas mess, my wife was talking on the phone to my daughter and I sat down in a chair and fell asleep. We had a lot of work to do and I chose to fall asleep. When my wife asked me what I was doing while she was on the phone, I lied. At that moment, she knew that I had lied about what I was doing and things have been getting worse and worse ever since now for over a month. It was very eye-opening for me because I saw in black and white what it is that I do and have done for years. I lie in order to protect myself from getting into trouble. Its a very sad way to live. I understand how tired my wife is now and know that she has been struggling with the way that I've been for our whole married life.

Now she is very withdrawn. All she talks about now is how she plans to leave me and she wants me out of her life. She wants me to move out.

Bottom line to me is that I've realized the hurt that I've caused and I have worked to stop the love busters. That is only the first step; now I need to start taking action in doing the things that will rebuild our relationship. Its very difficult to do when your wife is so withdrawn...DJ


I'm 59 yrs old; married to my wife for 30+ yrs. Started having marriage troubles 5 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 5 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
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Originally Posted By: dividejim
At the time of the email which was March 2015, my wife had kicked me out of the house. The summary of the show was that I feared being honest with her because of the angry outburst that was sure to come. Dr. Harley suggested that I stay out of the house and enjoy being separated for a time. I should continue to talk to my wife via the phone/email but that I should stay away until the anger problem was solved. The struggle seemed to be centered around my wife wanting us to "discuss" the horrible things that I had done to her over the 30 years of our marriage. When we would discuss these things, it would inevitably end up in a fight and would escalate to an angry outburst on both of our parts.

We are now almost a year later and we don't have angry outbursts anymore and haven't now for probably 6 months. I didn't stay away from my wife but was back in the house within a day or two back in March 2015.

So, that part wasn't followed through. I think that is a major reason why you are where you are today.

Originally Posted By: dividejim
Obviously, I am still not meeting my wife's emotional needs because she is still very hurt by what I believe to be what I am not doing now. I believe that she has let go of the hurt that I've caused in the past but now she is more bothered by the fact that I'm not doing anything actively to rebuild our marriage.

The strategy of the Marriage Builders programme is to create and sustain romantic love. Doing this requires you to take specifics steps, hourly, daily and permanently. Do you know what these are?

Originally Posted By: dividejim
l had a real "awakening" back at Christmas just over a month ago and fully realized the hurt that I have caused. Things seemed to be going much better and then when we were cleaning the house up after the Christmas mess, my wife was talking on the phone to my daughter and I sat down in a chair and fell asleep. We had a lot of work to do and I chose to fall asleep. When my wife asked me what I was doing while she was on the phone, I lied. At that moment, she knew that I had lied about what I was doing and things have been getting worse and worse ever since now for over a month. It was very eye-opening for me because I saw in black and white what it is that I do and have done for years. I lie in order to protect myself from getting into trouble. Its a very sad way to live. I understand how tired my wife is now and know that she has been struggling with the way that I've been for our whole married life.

What did Dr H say to you about stopping your lies?

Originally Posted By: dividejim
Now she is very withdrawn. All she talks about now is how she plans to leave me and she wants me out of her life. She wants me to move out.

Bottom line to me is that I've realized the hurt that I've caused and I have worked to stop the love busters. That is only the first step; now I need to start taking action in doing the things that will rebuild our relationship. Its very difficult to do when your wife is so withdrawn...DJ

Why haven't you been doing anything actively to rebuild your marriage?

Have you spoken to your wife about what she'd like you to do to rebuild? Has she expressed her wishes on this? Do you know what they are?


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Hi.. Welcome back to MB.

***EDIT***

This will not be an easy fix. But its fixable. It ill just take some time and consistancy to recreate romantic love.

You got some work ahead of you.

1. What's your wifes biggest complaint currently?
2. How much time do you guys spend one on one?
3. Do you know your wifes top emotional needs? If so what do you think they are?
4. Stop behaving hurt by her behaviour towards you. Accept it. Your reactions to her actions and reactions if negative at all will not put +1's into her love bank.
5. Start focusing on HER top emotional needs without expecting validation or reciprocation.(Good convo,fun activities together, date stuff etc)
6. Appologize for your unloving behaviour and accept her reaction..

***EDIT***

.don't worry about her reaction her feelings are hers and she has a right to them. What will matter is your on behviour there afte and showing her you value her.

***EDIT***

That's all I got for now.. My commute is over.

MNG

Last edited by Toujours; 02/11/16 07:58 PM. Reason: TOS: non-MB advice
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Originally Posted By: MrNiceGuy
Hi.. Welcome back to MB. ***EDIT***

How so? Examples?

Last edited by Toujours; 02/11/16 08:00 PM. Reason: removing quote

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I don't need to give examples because obviously there is none posted.I think I'm reading between the lines here a bit.Maybe more like he be interpreting her words and actions towards his efforts and may think its disrespect. We don't see the whole picture because I'm sure there is a lot of details he is not getting into incase his wife finds the thread he ould be afraid of her reaction. I'm sure she's said disrespectful things... That have hurt him. Correct me if I am wrong please dividejim.

I know.. As a man that I would feel disrerspected by my wifes unloving behaviour.. If I was making effort to correct my unloving behaviour. Doesn't mean its right..I would just be how I felt.

I'm trying to open up the convo a bit more.. As I'm sure there is more. It in not likely to be she is simply mad at him for years of cycling and "all of a sudden" she's no longer happy with him.

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With enough time of no lovebusting and meeting her needs.. She will eventually respond positivly towards him. Making love bank deposits.. +1 +1 +1.. Before ya know it BOOM .. In love again. And history rewrites itself again and everyone sees the positive again instead of focusing on the negative from the past.

Kinda like throwing rocks into a river to make a bridge... Eventually the rocks will start appearing and fill in the gap.

smile

Edit: there does not seem to be a lot wrong with their marriage fundamentaly.. No cheating.. So.. To me its damage that can be repaired with time, and consistancy and positive momentum meeting her needs.

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Originally Posted By: MrNiceGuy
I don't need to give examples because obviously there is none posted.I think I'm reading between the lines here a bit.Maybe more like he be interpreting her words and actions towards his efforts and may think its disrespect. We don't see the whole picture because I'm sure there is a lot of details he is not getting into incase his wife finds the thread he ould be afraid of her reaction. I'm sure she's said disrespectful things... That have hurt him. Correct me if I am wrong please dividejim.

I know.. As a man that I would feel disrerspected by my wifes unloving behaviour.. If I was making effort to correct my unloving behaviour. Doesn't mean its right..I would just be how I felt.

I'm trying to open up the convo a bit more.. As I'm sure there is more. It in not likely to be she is simply mad at him for years of cycling and "all of a sudden" she's no longer happy with him.

No it isn't likely that "all of a sudden she's no longer happy with him" - and that is not what he said at all. He said that his habitual lying has been a factor throughout their marriage, and that just when things were getting a bit better between them, at Christmas he lied to her again, and THAT is what has pushed her into this deep withdrawal. Clearly, she's had enough of the same old same old. The poster changed his behaviour for a while, and then, at a critical time in their relationship, he took her right back to where she'd been before. No wonder she has checked out.

Dr Harley does not identify a wife who is in withdrawal as "love busting" her husband. Indeed, he displays a lot of sympathy for a wife who has been pushed to this position.

The poster said nothing to imply his wife was love busting; indeed, he said that their angry outbursts and arguing about the past, and his attempts to justify his historic bad behaviour, have ceased for several months now. The problem, therefore, is not her love busting, and you do him no favours by "reading between the lines a bit" and suggesting that the problem is with her behaviour, rather than his recent lying.

Also, he has not said he has made efforts to correct his unloving behaviour. He HAS said that his wife is disappointed that he has made no efforts to rebuild their marriage - suggesting that, apart from giving up obsessive cycling, he is not "correcting his unloving behaviour" at all. He has stopped that particular form of love buster, but has not stopped the lying, and has not done much, if anything to work on the intimate emotional needs. If he were taking her out, talking to her, and showing her affection and offering his undivided attention, she wouldn't complain that he has done nothing to attempt to rebuild the marriage.

Finally, you do him no favours by suggesting that he goes and "works out", when working out in the form of cycling was the very thing that took him away from her and had a major, negative effect on their marriage.


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Originally Posted By: MrNiceGuy
Edit: there does not seem to be a lot wrong with their marriage fundamentaly..

Well, you must have read a different account from the one he posted.


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Hi MrNiceGuy, I'll attempt to address your questions:

1) My wife's biggest complaint currently is that I ignore her
2) As far as time spent together, we spend very little time together
3) I would have to take a guess at her top emotional needs; she is not interested in Marriage Builders even though everything in Marriage Builders is what she believes. Its just because its my idea and she's not too keen on anything that I come up with at the moment.
4) As far as my reaction to her behavior toward me, I accept that she feels the way that she does and I don't fight her or try to control how she feels anymore. I stopped doing this around Christmastime 2015. Its only been a short time, I know


I'm 59 yrs old; married to my wife for 30+ yrs. Started having marriage troubles 5 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 5 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
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Would you care to answer my questions?


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SugarCane, I believe that her emotional needs are as follows in order of importance:

Honesty/Openness
Conversation
Family Commitment
Domestic Support
Affection
Financial Support
Physical Attractiveness
Admiration
Recreational Companionship
Sexual Fulfillment

It does help to actually list these in their priority.


I'm 59 yrs old; married to my wife for 30+ yrs. Started having marriage troubles 5 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 5 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
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SugarCane, I have to apologize, I thought that your questions were the ones that I responded to but they were from MrNiceGuy. Let me attempt to answer your questions:

1) I have so much MB stuff running through my head that its all a jumble in my mind. A concise, structured listing of the program would be helpful to me.

2) As far as stopping the lying, we talked about openness and honesty. My wife and I talk a lot about this and I've listed that as her greatest need. This is something that I struggle with and am definitely working to correct. My lie at Christmas over cleaning the house was a huge eye-opening event for me because it reinforced what my wife has been telling me for a long time that I hide the truth.

3) As far as why I haven't been doing anything to rebuild our marriage, I am very confused on where to begin. It seems that I run into a brick wall whenever I try to institute something. I'm sure that it is because the hurt that I have caused have created a lot of resentment in my wife and she is not willing to listen to my BS anymore.

4) I have spoken to my wife through email about wanting to rebuild our marriage. I have also spoken to her face to face. I believe that I know what it is that she wants. My problem right now is that she is withdrawn and won't engage with me on anything.


I'm 59 yrs old; married to my wife for 30+ yrs. Started having marriage troubles 5 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 5 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
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Originally Posted By: dividejim

Its only been a short time, I know



This is the key thing you said here... It took you 30 years to crush her love bank (likely bounced around some in and out of love several times). You still need more time together to build relationship momentum.

***EDIT***

In regards to using MB tools when she wants nothing to do with it.. Is to not speak MB terminology... Rather find a way to do the things you need to do in your marriage to turn it around with the tools here using your own words... So it doesn't seem MB to her.. But also resonates with her. Use words she uses.. She will come around...you just keep meeting the needs you think she has... Do some special things for her..just because...make her feel important.

Whatever you do.... Don't whine (or what she precieves as) Don't mope... Don't sulk... Don't appologize for something more than once.. And if your wife has negative energy (you will know when she's feeling negative toards you or not) take advantage of the not so negative moments and build on them...+1 her love bank henever you can. And if it does get negative.. Don't get hurt over it. Just be there and ***EDIT***. Saying too much or getting defensive over her feelings will be like -20 or more each time.. Then you need a lot of +1's again to rebuild the lost love balance..

When ever you can .. Be positive. Be available, make good convo, learn what interests her and talk to her about it or do it with her.. Offer to go for walks together... Hold her hand (just take it and if she pulls away no biggie).. For no reason send her to the spa... Compliment her... Notice stuff she does.. Ask her questions about herself. Be fun.

***EDIT***

I been married since I was 19 and with her since I was 16.. I'm 37 now.. With and 18yo daughter and 12yo son. Beenderdun all dis. MB is great.. Lots of good fundamentaals to work with and on. You can have a great marriage... ***EDIT*** MB tools will help you to clean up your act and sho your wife you love her. You can do it!

MNG

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If your lieing... That's got to stop..... Period.. Her current need is openness and honesty because its been lacking.. It may not be her top need overall... But its top right now. Don't tell her your going to stop lieing.. JUST DO IT. No amount of telling her your going to stop will make her believe it... You have to prove it with more time and consistancy. Lies will -20 her love bank.. And each time you meet her needs its only +1. Do the math... Doesn't take long to be very disliked and unattractive again from one dumb lie... So stop it.. Appologize once.. And don't do it again. Period. Does jean luke picard lie to his crew? NO.... Of course not. ... Don't be afraid of your wifes reactions... That's on her not you. So always tell the truth.. Even if your afraid of her reaction to the truth. Just do it. You ill feel better and so will your wife.. Even if you don't like her reaction initially...

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