Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 33 of 43 1 2 31 32 33 34 35 42 43
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 577
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 577
All waywards act entitled especially when deep in an affair. They often act the opposite of what they once were. Neglecting everything except themselves and the affair.
There will be no equality in your house as long as the affair burns, in fact YOU will be carrying probably 90% or more of EVERYTHING including just being civil.
Accept it and realize it is your chance to show you are fighting for her.

Kind of a kill her with kindness attitude.



Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by NebDane
I know it is extremely difficult to walk this razor edge of disrespect vs. standing up for yourself when the person you trusted, loved, invested, believed in the most feels the complete opposite of you. Yes, the legal system is stacked against you.

No one, (including all on this forum) was perfect in their approach in Plan A, we all made mistakes, big and little. Keep trying to improve your approach or move into Plan B if you can't do it anymore. Being disrespected in your own home with an ongoing affair is cruel and sadistic.

Thank you, NebDane. You hit the nail on the head. These are exactly my feelings. It's not that I don't love WW; I still do very much. It's that throughout this process, I came see our relationship in different light. I have been disrespected progressively more each year, as she rewrites history in order to justify her affair with POSOM. The dishonesty is what really pains me. Facing that, and trying to do Plan A, is very difficult.

We spent the morning together at DS's games. We were cordial with each other despite the legal entanglement. She initiated the discussion about settling that one aspect so we both agreed to do that. Our DS did very well today so everyone was happy, and we went out to lunch together. Tonight we will gather with other friends for dinner as well, none of whom have been told about the D. Hopefully it will instill some positive feelings for her in our M, with these activities as a family and relative to other families.



Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by typicalman
Also... here is what I have experienced with lawyers... I think lost is going through the same thing. We try to send all divorce stuff through the attorneys, but they do not forward it, or they try to inflame the situation. They make more money if we hate each other. One of my attorneys called my WW a major B1tch... my other attorney called her a big liar.. and they are so pessimistic about saving the marriage. It's really hard to work with them.

TypicalMan, you are so right on the lawyers. They are worthless for transmitting messages to my WW. Her attorney is bent on generating billable hours. She is trying to "move" things along by filing motions and going to court, wasting everyone's time but generating lots of fees for her (and also my attorney). WW was there with BOTH sets of attorneys on the clock, waiting for four hours on Friday for an "emergency" decision that was put off until Tuesday.

There's a six month waiting period in our state, there is no rush to get everything decided in three weeks.

I'm not sure what states all of you critical of my efforts to discuss the legal process with WW are from, but I will tell you if I did that we will waste all of our time and effort fighting little things. And it won't be good Plan A either because every one of the motions, briefs, memos filed try to paint the other spouse as a monster. Reading my WW's motion was very painful. She painted me as a stalker (because I followed MB's advice and tracked her GPS, got her email and her phone hacked.)
If we are fighting through the lawyers, it will still be an ugly fight painted through the lawyers' ugly lenses designed to push the D forward. They will amplify the negative things the other side is saying to get you mad and escalate the fight.

Last edited by LostOnWestCoast; 02/27/16 07:39 PM.

Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 577
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 577
Tonight is a great opportunity to be a great "date".

I am puzzled though, why none of these "friends" know about the affair?

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by NebDane
Tonight is a great opportunity to be a great "date".

I am puzzled though, why none of these "friends" know about the affair?

These are DS's friends and parents, they do not know WW that well, so not in my original Exposure target list. (Which was 24 people long!)


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
Quote
I'm not sure what states all of you critical of my efforts to discuss the legal process with WW are from, but I will tell you if I did that we will waste all of our time and effort fighting little things. And it won't be good Plan A either because every one of the motions, briefs, memos filed try to paint the other spouse as a monster. Reading my WW's motion was very painful. She painted me as a stalker (because I followed MB's advice and tracked her GPS, got her email and her phone hacked.)
If we are fighting through the lawyers, it will still be an ugly fight painted through the lawyers' ugly lenses designed to push the D forward. They will amplify the negative things the other side is saying to get you mad and escalate the fight.
You are free to keep doing what you are doing, Lost, but do not call it Plan A.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,842
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,842
Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
Originally Posted by apples123
a great deal your wives do that you arent giving them credit for though. Women do a great deal of daily unpaid domestic work that is usually overlooked (staying home with sick kids, meeting relatives, grocery shopping letting service people in and out of the house, changing sheets, and a million other things.) also, meeting the need for PA that most men have takes time and daily effort, is necessary to maintain a marriage but also is derided as frivolous and spendthrift. (Repeatedly on this thread in fact.)

I appreciated the things she did for the family and I often praised her for them. I told her without her efforts our DS would not have become the strong and smart young man he is. However, I also did a lot of the domestic chores around the house.

She is an only child with older parents, who literally did everything for her. When we got married, she did not know how to do laundry, wash the dishes, or clean the toilet, or many of the household tasks. I do most of the laundry around the house, I shuttle DS to school and many of his sports events whenever I can, especially on the weekends and after work, several times a week. I am *always* involved in DS's activities and she admits it, which is the reason that she proposed 50/50 custody. She knows how important I am in DS's development. She "said" she was appreciative of these efforts but it's still not enough. If I leave the laundry in the dryer for more than an hour, I would hear about it.

My point is, it's not as one-sided as you think it is.

I forgot to look on the calendar. Today must be Bash Lost Day! grin

I never said the effort was one-sided. I said you weren't crediting her for her efforts.

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by apples123
I never said the effort was one-sided. I said you weren't crediting her for her efforts.

I see your point. That's why I am here, to learn and hopefully grow.


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
I have an initial appointment set up with a child therapist for DS tomorrow. Do you think I should invite WW to come with me?

Or will it be too toxic to get into things right now? Should I wait until she moves out? She said it could be just me or with WW. It could help pull the heartstrings on the effects of D on DS, but it could also backfire if it turns into a bitter rehash of everything that went wrong...???

Last edited by LostOnWestCoast; 02/27/16 08:25 PM.

Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,842
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,842
Can you do ask her to go with you in a respectful way?

"I've found a potential therapist for DS. Would you like to join me for the initial interview?"

Can you remain respectful when you explain the situation? Have you already discussed it with the therapist?

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 577
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 577
Take the opportunity to invite her tomorrow.
Always take the high road if you are goaded into a fight with a wayward, especially in front of a counselor. The counselor shouldn't be rehashing things.

You need to develop some thick skin, they are employing the extreme mudslinging tactic, let it roll off your back. I know, easier said than done. It is a tactic to get you to lose your composure and do something wrong, then they can really attack you. Don't fall for this. Your wayward is going totally on wayward script with the re-writing of history, smearing you, etc. Be James Bond.

Stating the obvious here, you missed a big exposure opportunity by not including these people tonight. If they are your DS friends, who better to know and at the least be helpful with DS. You need to tell them, but not tonight.

Your attorney should be able to put a stop to some of this nonsense if he knows way around the court and/or the other attorney. Some attorneys will "work a file" for profit, no doubt. Don't return the favor as a mudslinger in court unless child welfare is in doubt. It accomplishes nothing in Plan A, and wastes money.
If you are past Plan A, then "no holds barred".




Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 435
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 435
**EDIT**

Last edited by Denali; 02/27/16 10:24 PM. Reason: TOS - posting personal philosophies
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 217
D
Administrator
Member
Offline
Administrator
Member
D
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 217
typicalman, do not post on this thread again. You have disrupted this thread quite enough with personal philosophies that are not helpful to this poster.


MBDenali@gmail.com
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by apples123
Can you do ask her to go with you in a respectful way?

"I've found a potential therapist for DS. Would you like to join me for the initial interview?"

Can you remain respectful when you explain the situation? Have you already discussed it with the therapist?

Yes, I have discussed with therapist and told WW about this. But I think it might be potentially too volatile at this point.

Let me really think about this, whether it will be helpful or not. I am just worried it will turn counterproductive with WW mudslinging me.

Last edited by LostOnWestCoast; 02/28/16 01:46 AM.

Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 65
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
Originally Posted by apples123
Can you do ask her to go with you in a respectful way?

"I've found a potential therapist for DS. Would you like to join me for the initial interview?"

Can you remain respectful when you explain the situation? Have you already discussed it with the therapist?

Yes, I have discussed with therapist and told WW about this. But I think it might be potentially too volatile at this point.

Let me really think about this, whether it will be helpful or not. I am just worried it will turn counterproductive with WW mudslinging me.

Our belief system is a major source of our abilities and our limitations.

Lost, it looks like you cannot see either an opportunity or an issue when posters point at them. Unfortunately, your belief system works against you in your efforts to save your marriage.

Why therapy session would be volatile? Do you think you won't be able to control your emotions?



Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by Aerith
Our belief system is a major source of our abilities and our limitations.

Lost, it looks like you cannot see either an opportunity or an issue when posters point at them. Unfortunately, your belief system works against you in your efforts to save your marriage.

Why therapy session would be volatile? Do you think you won't be able to control your emotions?

Yes, I think I am not seeing the forest for the trees. It's very hard to see things from a 30,000 ft level when I'm down in the trenches. I can see other people's situation clearly on their threads, but it's hard to adjust myself.

I talked to the therapist and she thought maybe the first session is better with just me to learn the background. I might get too emotional if I go with WW and I think potentially it will generate a lot of LB's for WW. Also, with WW still deep in the Fog, I'm not sure how much acceptance she will have of any of the ideas. She made it clear she would only go if it's for DS and NOT her (IC).


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
Lost, really, you are doing your best.

You said that you can be objective with other situations. I can see that.

I don't want to add insult to injury....but consider this...

The job of the posters advising you is to discern where you need help with MB concepts as you try to save your marriage.

None of us was a perfect partner before the final crisis, or D-day. We know some of our bad habits. Sometimes we don't realize the underlying attitudes which keep us from our goal of a happy marriage. The times when we are tempted to display those attitudes is when we are unfairly treated or we feel frustrated because of something beyond our control. This is not news, I'm sure.

I know it's beyond difficult to not feel defeated by your wife and then by posters pointing out your possibly hurtful attitudes. But as others have mentioned, they are trying to prepare you for a successful future. Try to be open, and then after that, if it hurts too much to try on the shoe that day, put aside for when you can try. In the end, if it doesn't fit, don't worry about it.

Just stay strong in Plan A. You may feel defeated, but be proud that you fought to interrupt the affair while showing kindness to your wife. When she wakes up, hopefully the way you have treated her during Plan A will be a reason for her to attempt a return instead of being afraid to approach you. Really, the ball will be in your court.

Have you tried using a GSR tool to calm yourself through this tough time?

Hang in there. Know that you are supported.

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
Thanks, DidntQuit, I think that's what I need now more than anything else, support. I feel so alone in this quest to save my marriage. Everyone around me (outside of the boards) tells me to give up on the marriage. It is very hard for me to keep on this path.

Today I was very friendly and understanding of WW. She said she was out of cash to buy food and lunch for DS, so I gave her what I had in my pocket. She was happy about it and we enjoyed our son's games today together. He did great and we went out to dinner (I gave her two choices and she chose one!)
While I am sitting next to her throughout the day, it is very hard for me not to revisit the fact that my marriage is crumbling before my eyes. I am so conflicted as to what to do, every little step...

I went to the Family Therapist today. She let me discuss my issues first before DS, since right now DS has no symptoms. She is a divorcee herself and recommended Detachment (her ex was violent, according to her). I'm not sure I should continue with her, as she was very much against the Exposure tactic as I described MB principles. She compared it to Donald Trump, saying what people want to do but were embarrassed to say...

What is GSR, BTW?

Last edited by LostOnWestCoast; 02/28/16 11:07 PM.

Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
I went to the Family Therapist today. She let me discuss my issues first before DS, since right now DS has no symptoms. She is a divorcee herself and recommended Detachment (her ex was violent, according to her). I'm not sure I should continue with her, as she was very much against the Exposure tactic as I described MB principles. She compared it to Donald Trump, saying what people want to do but were embarrassed to say...

It doesn't sound like she is experienced with infidelity, which is not surprising.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,209
For the next interview..

I would keep it simple. Say only that:

1.Your wife had an affair
2. You are devastated.
3. You don't want a divorce and you are willing to make any changes necessary to fix the marriage.

Do not use your son's counselor as your marriage counselor. Let the counselor know that you are worried about your son and need them to support him through this.

A GSR machine is something that Dr. H recommends as a tool to learn to relax. I was emotionally fried since I was in Plan A for quite a while. I practiced with the GSR unit to help me stop overreacting to all of the craziness around me. One especially difficult point was when my husband was highly critical of me and planning divorce and a family member's response to me was that I would be sorry if I got divorced because I would ruin my kids' lives! (As if I had a choice about it!)

Another thing that made me more emotional was that I struggled with recognizing wayward fogspeak for what it was, because there's usually some truth in it.

I was just thinking that since you are feeling emotional, and didn't like ADs (was that you?) then you could try this method. I think that there are GSR apps now. Maybe see what you can find.

And btw..listen to MBradio every day if you can. You will build a reference bank to draw from should certain opportunities arise with WW.

One way that I gleaned comfort in Plan A was through education. I listened to practically the whole mbradio archive! Knowledge is power.





Page 33 of 43 1 2 31 32 33 34 35 42 43

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 91 guests, and 92 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Comfortable Shoe, Sourdine, Abela Laye, Ardent Center, Lost@1969
71,846 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5