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#2880945 05/04/16 09:37 PM
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I am starting my own thread to get advice separately from my husband. I appreciate the input so far. Your assessment of my feelings is absolutely bang on. I felt relieved that I have not lost my mind. So, my husband is depressed and keeps presenting that he really needs a vacation. Of course I am not going to go so he suggested he go alone. He doesn't see that this is not in line with the program. He feels I have been abusing him and so it would be an acceptable exception to the POJA. What is your advice to me given the situation I am in? I honestly dread discussing anything with him anymore.

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Of course I am not going to go so he suggested he go alone. He doesn't see that this is not in line with the program. He feels I have been abusing him and so it would be an acceptable exception to the POJA.
Dr. Harley advises couples to never spend a night apart from each other.

And refusing to go to the beach is not abuse. Refusing to do anything is not abuse. Abuse is something that one spouse DOES to another.

The two of you should stay home and start going out on dates 20 hours a week.


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You are absolutely doing the right thing by not agreeing to his selfish demands. Making sacrifices to his demands will only create resentment and incompatibility. I would advise you to ignore his selfish demands and immerse yourself in the program so you will understand how it works.

Do you have the book lovebusters? I think it will be a real eye opener for you. Another fantastic resource is the MB radio show that is on every day. You can listen to it free any day on the MB app.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Effective Marriage Counseling pg 112 - 113

What about Resentment?

One of the most common objections to the POJA is that it creates
resentment when it�s followed. I agree; it does usually create some
resentment. But far more resentment is created when it is not followed.
An illustration will help make this important point.

George is invited to watch football with his friend Sam. He tells
his wife, Sue, that he plans to accept the invitation. Sue objects.

If George goes ahead and watches the game, he�s guilty of independent
behavior. He is not following the POJA, and Sue will be resentful.
When George does something against the wishes of Sue, I call
her resentment type A.

If George follows the POJA and doesn�t accept Sam�s invitation,
George will be resentful. When George is prevented from doing something
because of Sue�s objections, I call his resentment type B.

Which type of resentment makes the largest Love Bank withdrawals:
type A or type B? The answer is type A, and that�s why the POJA
helps build Love Bank balances. I�ll explain.

When George violates the POJA, Sue has no choice but to feel
the effect of the thoughtless decision (Love Bank withdrawals) for
as long as memory persists�possibly for life whenever the event is
recalled. But when George follows the POJA, the negative effect is
limited in time. It lasts only as long as it takes to discover an enjoyable
alternative that is acceptable to Sue.

George lets Sue know how disappointed he is with her objection
but is willing to discuss other options. Sue wasn�t invited to watch
football and doesn�t want to invite herself to Sam�s house, so she
suggests inviting Sam and his wife to their house to watch football.
George calls Sam, he and his wife accept, and the new activity puts
an end to George�s type B resentment.

Type A resentment can last forever, but type B resentment stops
the moment a mutually enjoyable alternative is discovered. Those
with poor negotiating skills may have trouble seeing the difference
because they have not learned how to resolve conflicts. They may
feel resentment about a host of issues that have been unresolved in
their marriage. But after you teach a couple to negotiate successfully,
unresolved issues are minimized. Then it becomes clear to
them that the POJA helps build Love Bank balances by eliminating
type A resentment.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Spending 15-20 hours with my husband feels like torture. He disrespects me, talks over me, lectures, is sarcastic, and has often been angry. His tone is regularily condescending and ridiculing. How am I supposed to get through 15 hours when it is so unpleasant?

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Originally Posted by Indianaswife
Spending 15-20 hours with my husband feels like torture. He disrespects me, talks over me, lectures, is sarcastic, and has often been angry. His tone is regularily condescending and ridiculing. How am I supposed to get through 15 hours when it is so unpleasant?

Do you mean you don't find that appealing and attractive??? grin

Maybe the best place to start would be a focus on eliminating lovebusters? WE don't want you to spend more time with him if it will make things worse until lovebusters are eliminated.

While I don't think you should EVER AGREE to go a beach setting again, would you feel more open to vacations with him if he eliminated lovebusters and learned to be attractive and appealing?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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iw, I would suggest that you offer to let your husband have the chance to spend time with you IF he will stop the behaviors you are describing. He can learn to stop that from the book Love Busters and from Dr. Harley's radio show and from your feedback. Make the agreement that if he will stop these behaviors, you'll give him the chance to try to spend time with you.

I would also insist that he get medical treatment for his depression. You can't really pull him out of that. He needs to see a doctor and get some short term antidepressants and then together the two of you can work on building a happy marriage if he will eliminate the abusive behaviors.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2881099 05/06/16 04:05 PM
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I am going to insist on the treatment for depression. What does "insisting" look like?

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Originally Posted by Indianaswife
I am going to insist on the treatment for depression. What does "insisting" look like?

Tell him you're not going to entertain any more discussion about vacations or Marriage Builders until he sees a doctor about getting some antidepressants. Since he is claiming his depression means you HAVE to do what he wants, he needs to get that issue treated and taken off of the table so that you can talk together about building a good marriage as equals who don't make demands of each other.

Tell him that if he doesn't like this the two of you can get a second opinion from Dr. Willard Harley from Marriage Builders - you can email Dr. Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. Dr. Harley is a clinical psychologist and used to treat a lot of conditions including depression. He doesn't believe in antidepressant medication for life: he believes in using it for the short term so that you can even out the emotional highs and lows and focus rationally on working a plan to make your life better. Dr. Harley is the author of all the books your husband claims to love so much, like His Needs Her Needs (which he has revised a LOT in the last several years!!!), so hopefully your husband will respect his opinion.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2881136 05/07/16 07:45 AM
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Last night I decided to sleep in the spare room. He came up and got in bed with me. I asked him to leave. He wouldn't. So I came back downstairs and he followed me. I tried to leave the house but he insisted on coming with me. I tried everything to get him to leave me alone. He kept saying "Harley says not to spend a night apart and you are supposed to ask how I would feel about you sleeping upstairs". I think he has lost his mind and I want him out of the house. Do you agree?

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He refuses to accept help, won't listen to me, doesn't listen much to you all and we have been at this for 10 years. I am just done.

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iw, again, I would make him the offer that he can stay with you IF he can learn to stop being abusive - that means stopping these three behaviors:

Selfish Demands
Disrespectful Judgments
Angry Outbursts

Dr. Harley teaches how to overcome these behaviors in Love Busters and on the daily radio show, and we also help with it here.

This is basically what my wife did to me 4 years ago - she told me that I needed to leave if I wouldn't give up my angry outbursts. I had a couple weeks of what I like to call "Super 8 Motel therapy," which is very effective!

What do you think of this idea?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2881140 05/07/16 08:33 AM
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I have said this several times and given him too many chances. It is time for Motel 8 Therapy. But he won't leave unless he hears it from you he says.

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You should just change the locks. Please read my "What to do with an angry husband" link in my signature.

IF he starts following the program, would you welcome him back? Or are you done completely, regardless?


Markos' Wife
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What to do with an Angry Husband

Prisca #2881267 05/09/16 08:35 PM
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I think he has to get treatment separately from me first. I have been in counselling on an ongoing basis and am at the point where if he doesn't get help now I am not going to be able to stay with him. It does neither of us any good. As you can hear he twists the MB concepts to fit what he wants. I don't know if treating the depression will help with that or not. He has kind of missed the whole point of the program. We have so many reasons to make it work but so many awful things have been said to me that I need to get past and I will. However, I will not tolerate the love busters any more. I am 100% committed to doing whatever is up to me to have a healthy relationship. From here on in it will be up to him.

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Does anyone have any suggestions for anything else I should try?

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Originally Posted by Indianaswife
Does anyone have any suggestions for anything else I should try?


Prisca has herself done what she told you to do and it worked. Why would you not follow her advice?


3 adult children
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I think he has to get treatment separately from me first.
I agree. He needs to get to the doctor and get on anti-depressants. He also needs to get into an anger management program that focuses on relaxation techniques. You need to be very picky about the anger management that he takes -- not all programs are created equal.

If I were you, I would also require him to talk to Dr. Harley himself. The best man to set him straight on how to use the program is the man who created it.

You should most definitely separate until he does these things.


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What to do with an Angry Husband

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Originally Posted by Indianaswife
I have said this several times and given him too many chances. It is time for Motel 8 Therapy. But he won't leave unless he hears it from you he says.

iw, I would really encourage you to get in touch with Dr. Harley. Send him and his wife Joyce an email at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com describing the problems your husband causes for you.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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See IW? There IS hope!

I am So proud of you! You handled that difficult topic in such a polished and systematic way. weightlifter

Thanks for being willing to share your situation with the listeners. That took lots of courage.

Having been in a similar situation, I can assure you things can all come together, with a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

Spelled out:
Eliminate the contrast effect
Follow the Policy of Sexual Exclusivity
Plan to meet needs in a mutually motivating way
Be cautious with type of ADs
Seek hormone replacement/meds for Age Related Sexual Dysfunction.

Don't you just love how diplomatic and nonthreatening Dr. Harley can be?

Once again, great job!
hurray
hug

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