Thanks. That's exactly what I'm expecting to happen. Usually she is good on the weekends, and then when we seperate to go to work during the week she eventually tries to contact OM. Last week she made it all the way until Wednesday before she contacted him. I heard her on the voice recorder tell him she re-installed the Tango app to see if he had messaged her. And since he did, she called him and they talked about random stuff for about 30 minutes.

Since I confronted her and she went No Contact again Thursday night, I haven't seen any evidence of her contacting him, but I saw he keeps trying to text her occasionally on the phone account. But she has his number blocked so she doesn't see the messages.

Are you filling in the gaps to stay connected during the day? Keep her mind on you with playful positivity. Ask her out, make plans, etc. Text her midmorning, invite her for lunch, or at least call. Throw affection and admiration her way as a daily habit which continues always.

Yeah, we pretty much text all through the day at work. She rarely has anything to do at work, so that is a big temptation for her I am sure. Idle hands are the devil's playground, as they say. On the good days where we are getting along good, she calls me on the way to work and on the way home and talks the whole way. We go to her martial arts class together twice per week, that's about our only recreation together during the week. We've been spending all of our time together though, besides work.

Oh, I've been getting her to send me a pic everyday while at work to show me how she looks and I've been telling her she looks pretty.

A couple questions I thought of:
1) From the communications I've intercepted the last couple times, OM is depressed and going to counseling and trying to make WW feel sorry for him. She tried to make him feel better by reminding him that he has a new job that he enjoys and that he will feel better once his divorce is finalized. Is that a typical tactic by OP's? It worked good for him right after D-day when they were still working together. He moped around and made her feel so guilty that she pushed me away to go comfort him. If I'm doing plan A flawlessly while he is playing the guilt game, is that good?

2) At the wedding last night, WW was very affectionate and told me she loved me many times. It was just like a pre-affair day. Already today she is a little less talkative, mildly depressed and not responding when I say I love her. Is it likely that she may have contacted OM today, or is it just typical fluctuations from the fog, or am I analyzing it too much and is there no way to tell?

3) I have a little journal app on my phone that I started writing my thoughts down in on my phone as a form of therapy. WW knows this is what I use it for since she has seen parts of it before. Occassionally I will be writing in it and she will ask me what I am doing on my phone and I will say "writing in my journal". Is it bad for her to see me writing in that while I'm on plan A? If she sees me doing it, then she knows I am worrying about the affair and marriage.

4) I was WW's first and only sexual partner before the affair. She told me of a couple things her and OM did that me and her have never done and I didn't think she would ever be able to do. If we manage to rebuild this marriage perfectly, is it possible me and her will ever do any of those things, or is that just something I will be expected to live with? Because I don't know if I can unless we experience that together too.

Bob,

My thoughts regarding:

#1 You have no control over how the OM may try to manipulate your WW by moping or soliciting her comfort. If you are implementing an excellent Plan A, then just trust in that, and don't be so distracted on what he might be doing.

#2 As Didn'tQuit said, expect fluctuations in her behavior to you and her emotions, but don't allow those to cause you to fluctuate as well. Stay even-keeled in your Plan A. Do monitor her possible contact with OM, and if you find evidence of current contact then confront based on that. She needs to know that No Contact is a condition of your willingness to work on recovery of your M.

#4 No one else but you and your WW would be able to answer this for you. Hopefully, if you two do reach and achieve recovery of your M (and you're not that close to this yet) you two will be building a new history and a closer relationship, which will make this question obsolete.

Best of luck,
Tom

This has happened to many BH's before you. WW refused to do certain things for them during the marriage. Yet did them with the OM.

Only to end the affair and refuse to do them with the BH after the affair.

So only you can say I did without before and was happy so I can do without after the affair and be happy. If you cannot then????

Comes down to which you want more, to recover your marriage or get what the OM got.

Maybe with time but do not hold your breath.

The policy of joint agreement would apply to all areas of your marriage, which is never do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse. I sure wouldn't use that logic with her [you did it with the OM therefore you should do it with me] unless you want to trigger her feelings about the OM and can't imagine why you would want to do that.

Keep in mind, that when in an affair, the spouse is high on the fumes of fog and is doing something completely out of character.

Moping and guilting is not attractive.

As I've said before, as long as you don't have transparency with her, assume they are in contact. There's no need to try to analyze her mood -- just assume she is. And keep bringing up the need for transparency. and annoy the heck out of her by bringing up the check list.

Don't journal. It's a good way to feed your lovebusters.


If you think you can't live without whatever she did with the OM, then you might as well file for divorce now. Chances are she'll never do it with you. OR, she will, but only because she feels coerced by you to do it. There are many, many reasons why she may not want to do it with you (it will remind her of the affair, the OM may have coerced her and she did it to keep him, she feels ashamed, she's disgusted by it, etc), and if you demand that she must do it with you to keep you it will only be detrimental to your marriage.

It's so frustrating that Saturday evening was so perfect and yesterday and today she is back to not responding when I say I love her or show physical affection.

My spying is very limited since we still don't have transparency. She has changed all her passwords but I managed to hear her talking about certain apps on the voice recorder, so she believes I can see anything she does on her phone since I catch her everytime she switches to a different app.

We usually text throughout the day since neither of us can really talk while at work. Is it OK if I just text the checklist to her once per day and say something like "I just wanted to remind you about the checklist and let you know that once we complete this we can start to have a relationship better than either of us could have ever imagined."

It's hard to find an opportunity to bring up the checklist and transparency. I feel like if I bring it up today it will just annoy her and make me less attractive. It's like it's easier to mention our marriage when we are getting along good. We had that peak Saturday night and it's been headed downward all the way to today. So it seems like I will be aggravating her if I mention the checklist now, before I have a day or two to try to deposit some love units.

Pick a time when there is NOT an opportunity, and bring it up during that time.

Also, we know she is going to be annoyed. You have to do it anyway even though it is annoying.

Did you read where my wife says to "annoy the heck out of her"? My wife is a woman that I annoyed the heck out of in the process of repairing our marriage, so she knows what she is talking about.

Don't be a wuss who has to wait till the stars align just right and hopes his wife will never be annoyed. Don't be a conflict avoider. Just follow the steps. Bring that check list up EVERY DAY.

Listen, the best thing markos ever said to me was "I am not willing to share you."

Insisting that you need her to end her affair is equal to pursuing her. It tells her you need her and that you want her.

If you do not make noise about her affair, it tells her you don't care.

ANNOY HER ABOUT IT. Make a lot of noise about it. Let her know IT MATTERS, and you're not going to share her.

What you are saying makes sense, but if I keep annoying her, isn't that a love buster and will make her want to leave or make OM look more attractive? I want to keep bugging her about the checklist and transparency, but it seems like it will keep us from ever having a happy conversation.

The goal here is to get her to end her affair, not to avoid conflict. The problem is not lovebusters, but her affair. You need to stay on it.

Did you read my post?
Continuing to bring up transparency and the checklist is showing that you care.

If you don't, if you just sit back and let her go about her affair with NO objection from you, you are then just showing her that she doesn't matter.

Telling her "I need transparency in our marriage. I need us to follow this checklist." Is NOT A LOVEBUSTER. There is nothing disrespectful in those statements. If you blow up at her when she says no, then THAT would be a lovebuster. If you make threats, THAT would be a lovebuster. But simply stating what you need in the marriage is not.

Your marriage can survive her annoyance.

You all make sense and I really appreciate the advice. Everything you've told me so far has worked perfectly.
I just need to make sure I understand and execute properly.

What do I say or do when I bring up transparency and she says "I can't live like that" or "I'm not letting you take my life away."? Won't I seem weak if I say anything other than "well pack your bags and get out"?

Shrug and repeat that this is what you need from her. Then drop the subject and WITHOUT FAIL bring it up again tomorrow.

Does Dr. Harley have a step in the program about not appearing weak?

Is that from the Basic Concepts?