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I am a little desperate. I would welcome help ridding myself of leaving thoughts.

My wife and I are under tremendous stress raising her two teens, running a business, taking care of aging parents, managing a home ourselves, and accepting mid-life.

I am a Christian. I always believed in marriage for life, no matter what. That was until I got left 15 years ago. And saw same thing happen to many close friends. I thought after that, that I would be all the more in favour of marriage for life and what I believed God wants for us. But somehow my thinking has been tainted and I find myself going to what feels like involountary thoughts of ending it and saying I can't do this.

I am not convinced though. And I long for the values I once had, but having hard time holding onto them. My wife doesn't deserve this and I know it must be displeasing to God. And, we have what is by many standards a great marriage in many ways. Not perfect like anyone's isnt. But lots to work with.

Why do I want to run? I have been praying about it and trying to discipline my thoughts.

So I am asking for help to re-align. Prayers and input most welcome.

Chazz

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Originally Posted By: Chazz
I am a little desperate. I would welcome help ridding myself of leaving thoughts.

My wife and I are under tremendous stress raising her two teens, running a business, taking care of aging parents, managing a home ourselves, and accepting mid-life.

I am a Christian. I always believed in marriage for life, no matter what. That was until I got left 15 years ago. And saw same thing happen to many close friends. I thought after that, that I would be all the more in favour of marriage for life and what I believed God wants for us. But somehow my thinking has been tainted and I find myself going to what feels like involountary thoughts of ending it and saying I can't do this.

I am not convinced though. And I long for the values I once had, but having hard time holding onto them. My wife doesn't deserve this and I know it must be displeasing to God. And, we have what is by most standards a great marriage in many ways.

So I am asking for help to re-align. Prayers and input most welcome.

Chazz

Welcome back, Chazz.

You will get prayers, but I don't think you'll get much advice posting in this forum. I think you need to click "notify" and ask the moderators to move your post to the forum MB101.


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Thanks. Ill just delete and re-post.

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Hi Chazz, are you taking your wife on four dates per week that you both enjoy?


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Have you read the basic concepts?

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Yes. We do lots together. We in fact run our business together and often take breaks during day or late night when work is done.

I guess what I am saying here is it is bizarre even to me that I think this way. When things get tense in biz and family, she reacts in ways I can't handle (extreme intensity) and all that jumps to mind is "I can't handle 30 - 40 years of this... get out now"! It is like an involountary thought that I once dismissed easily.

I suppose I wanted to dialogue about it to put it out there and see the wrongness and futility of the thoughts. I dont know how I ever opened the door to them.

Maybe D opened it and I was so impacted by it, it is embedded in my subconscious. Id like to invalidate the thought process.

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Hi Apples.... yes, I actually posted here quite a bit years ago when M1 was coming apart and I was trying to save it. I bought Dr. H's book.

I re-read the overview just now and the concepts make sense, especially the foundational principle of the Love Bank.

Straight up, and I am afraid this is going to sound blaming... my thoughts to flee usually arise on the heels of my wife's angry outbursts. They are extreme and frankly often threaten our livelihood and future of our business.

I am a recovering rage-aholic. Long history of anger in my family that I picked up. But did intense work on myself after M1 fell apart and I felt like I lost everything.

So I suppose I am especially allergic to rages. We have beat this subject to death in counseling and discussion (my wife and I that is). She knows I can't handle the rages, especially when they eventually get pointed at me.

There is always an apology and acknowledgement at how wrong she was and that apologies arent good enough. But then... repeat again. It is in those times I feel no hope. I cannot help her and she is reluctant to get help.

I do love her. I know that for sure. And we have many wonderful things together in our lives. But the rages withdraw the account down to zero in an instant it seems.

I don't want to put this all on her. I can only change me. She may never, even if she wanted to. I need to do something different. But what?

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Originally Posted By: Chazz

So I suppose I am especially allergic to rages. We have beat this subject to death in counseling and discussion (my wife and I that is). She knows I can't handle the rages, especially when they eventually get pointed at me.


Of course you cannot handle angry outbursts, nobody can. Toddler tantrums are completely unacceptable once you are no longer a toddler.

Originally Posted By: Chazz
There is always an apology and acknowledgement at how wrong she was and that apologies arent good enough. But then... repeat again. It is in those times I feel no hope. I cannot help her and she is reluctant to get help.


That is like the person who hits his spouse and then says he is sorry. Until the next time when he hits her again. You are going to need to require that she stop this as a condition of staying married to you.

Originally Posted By: Chazz
I do love her. I know that for sure. And we have many wonderful things together in our lives. But the rages withdraw the account down to zero in an instant it seems.

I don't want to put this all on her. I can only change me. She may never, even if she wanted to. I need to do something different. But what?


Prisca and Marcos will be along with advice as they dealt with this brilliantly. Your wife needs to stop the angry outbursts completely and for ever.


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Thank you Living Well...

Originally Posted By: living_well
That is like the person who hits his spouse and then says he is sorry. Until the next time when he hits her again. You are going to need to require that she stop this as a condition of staying married to you.


Well.... this is what frightens me. I think I posted because part of me recognizes, and I have thrown back at my wife things like "I cannot handle this and if you treat me this way I see no future for us... find someone else who can handle this".

Yet, what are we talking here? Hurt feelings? Sounds trite in the scheme of things. People all over the world starving to death, Aids orphans in Africa, war, human trafficking, on and I'm making issue of hurt feelings?

Part of me want to man-up and take it. A healthy part of me wants to lead my wife through this for her sake, ours, and our family's. Yet another part of me makes a similar analogy to what you said about physical abuse. If it were physical abuse, and especially if it were the man striking the woman, nobody would expect her to stay. But it is not. And frankly, she does try. But the penny hasn't dropped yet. And just this week I was blasted again over somethings someone else did. And if I don't side-up with her tirade, the attack turns to me.

Originally Posted By: living_well
Prisca and Marcos will be along with advice as they dealt with this brilliantly. Your wife needs to stop the angry outbursts completely and for ever.


I hope she does. It is killing feelings of love for sure. Part of me wants to be bigger than her weakness. At least temporarily. Is this not unconditional love? This is what I want to offer but carrying it out is brutal and my banks of love and emotional energy both run dry. I suppose the alternative is we stay in a loveless marriage. Like so many do. Like many of our parents did.

Thus is my quandary. For today, I can handle it for another day. Again, I feel uneasy putting this all on her. There must be things I add to the problem and there must be things I can do to improve the situation. My role as a man is to, I feel, lead the charge to find the solution for us and our family. Reaching out here is one of those efforts to find solution.

Would welcome the input from the others you mentioned. Thanks again.

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Chazz, I am really concerned to see you minimizing the problem in an attempt to sweep it under the rug. A lack of radical honesty on your part will doom your marriage. Comparing your bad marriage to worse situations will not make it better. People in happy marriages don't compare. This tactic will only work for so long before you give up. Obviously, you can't fix a problem if it is not addressed and corrected.

A better approach is to address her angry outbursts and let her know your marriage will not last under these conditions. Truly it won't. You can only define deviancy down for so long. Don't tolerate her abuse ever again. Address it with her and be radically honest.

You dearly need to start using this program if you want to be married. GEt the book Lovebusters [right away!!] and His Needs, Her Needs. There is no need to lose your marriage over unspoken issues. Silence does not fix marriages, changing bad habits does!!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: Chazz
Yet, what are we talking here? Hurt feelings? Sounds trite in the scheme of things. People all over the world starving to death, Aids orphans in Africa, war, human trafficking, on and I'm making issue of hurt feelings?


What you are talking about is the future of your marriage. That is not a trite thing to most people. Stop minimizing it. This tactic hasn't worked in the past for you and won't work in the future. You will NEVER be successful at ignoring her abusive behavior so you are better off addressing it now than later when the fallout is worse.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Does your wife know about MB? Will she work the program?


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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Thanks Melody...

Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Comparing your bad marriage to worse situations will not make it better. People in happy marriages don't compare.


Agreed. My purpose for comparing would not be to make it better. It would be to stop me from leaving and simply accepting that some things in life suck and are painful. I have to be realistic that one of my choices is to stay in a painful marriage. Millions do. Not saying this is the best and only choice and it may sound bizarre.

I also am not the type to give in too easily. In my first marriage, I believed I was prepared to do anything to save it. OM stepped in at time we were distressed and that, I believe, closed the door. I guess what I am also saying is that I am not ready to give the ultimatum yet. But obviously since I am here, I am getting closer.

Originally Posted By: MelodyLane

A better approach is to address her angry outbursts and let her know your marriage will not last under these conditions. Truly it won't. You can only define deviancy down for so long. Don't tolerate her abuse ever again. Address it with her and be radically honest.


I thought I had been clear with her many times over the marriage... 7 years. Including with professional help. There is something bigger underlying her rage issues.... medical probably. It is beyond the power of the everyday will. Not making excuses for her. Just saying she has been trying, and we have seen improvement, but when it shows up again, hope evaporates for me almost immediately. You are right that I cannot hang on forever. But I can for today. And I want to leverage each of my today's. I guess what bothers me is I spend more time thinking about bolting than I do about solutions. Maybe thats the next step for me. Like your suggestion below.

Originally Posted By: MelodyLane

You dearly need to start using this program if you want to be married. GEt the book Lovebusters [right away!!] and His Needs, Her Needs. There is no need to lose your marriage over unspoken issues. Silence does not fix marriages, changing bad habits does!!


I did buy His Needs, Her Needs years ago trying to save M1. Threw out all my marriage-help material when it didn't work out. But I will certainly get a hold of Lovebusters per your suggestion.

Also, let me be clear this is not an unspoken issue. I have spoken time and again. We have counseled time and again. She knows and acknowledges a problem. I have left overnight many times. I have suspended plans for some financial preparations for the future together, and she knows I am not joking. As recently as yesterday we deferred on a major purchase... she said I don't want to make the purchase if you are going to leave. So it is beyond talk. There has been lots of "do", but the results of the "do" have not been fully sufficient yet to invoke enough change to give me longterm hope.

Bottom line is I am willing to continue to work and accept suggestions. I am not done yet. I am on the fence ... which is a very uncomfortable place to be.

I will get the book today and post to confirm I have it. Thanks for the tangible suggestion. I need to get out of my futile thinking and try someone else's.

Back shortly.

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Originally Posted By: BrainHurts
Does your wife know about MB? Will she work the program?


Thanks Brain Hurts...

All I can say is that I don't know that she won't if I ask her.... or better yet, tell her that if we don't try this, there is very good chance we won't last.

Frankly, she knows it already. Yesterday she put off a major purchase decision stating... I am afraid to make that decision in case you leave and I get stuck with it. So she knows I am not joking.

I do not make idle threats. That would be cruel, selfish, manipulative, and immature. She does know I am wearing out. She does want to be together. So that may add up to willingness for her. I am going to get a copy of Lovebusters today as my first step in following suggestions you folks have been kind enough to give.

Next step comes after that. Will let you know when I have it downloaded. Thanks for your care and time.

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Originally Posted By: Chazz
Thanks Melody...

Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Comparing your bad marriage to worse situations will not make it better. People in happy marriages don't compare.


Agreed. My purpose for comparing would not be to make it better. It would be to stop me from leaving and simply accepting that some things in life suck and are painful. I have to be realistic that one of my choices is to stay in a painful marriage. Millions do. Not saying this is the best and only choice and it may sound bizarre.


But your reasoning is not logical because it will have the opposite effect. Sweeping the problem under the rug makes it more likely your marriage will end. Many MORE millions leave bad marriages. People don't stay in abusive marriages. The solution to a bad marriage is not to sweep it under the rug and try to accept it, but to FIX IT.

Quote:
I also am not the type to give in too easily. In my first marriage, I believed I was prepared to do anything to save it. OM stepped in at time we were distressed and that, I believe, closed the door. I guess what I am also saying is that I am not ready to give the ultimatum yet. But obviously since I am here, I am getting closer.


You should not be accepting her abuse at all. That doesn't mean giving "ultimatums" but not taking abuse. You are part of the problem by not being honest with her. And the honest truth is that your marriage won't last if she continues to abuse you. I don't think either of you want that, do you? That is not an ultimatum, but a true statement.

Quote:


I thought I had been clear with her many times over the marriage... 7 years. Including with professional help. There is something bigger underlying her rage issues.... medical probably. It is beyond the power of the everyday will. Not making excuses for her.


The problem is she has not learned to control her behavior. That is the "underlying issue." She can learn to control that using anger management techniques. I will find the thread that will explain how to change this.

Quote:
Just saying she has been trying, and we have seen improvement, but when it shows up again, hope evaporates for me almost immediately.


But if she is still having angry outbursts, the problem is not being resolved.

Quote:


I did buy His Needs, Her Needs years ago trying to save M1. Threw out all my marriage-help material when it didn't work out. But I will certainly get a hold of Lovebusters per your suggestion.


And be sure and get His Needs, Her Needs so you can learn how to create a romantic, sustained marriage. Just eliminating lovebusters is half of the equation.

Quote:
Also, let me be clear this is not an unspoken issue. I have spoken time and again. We have counseled time and again. She knows and acknowledges a problem. I have left overnight many times. I have suspended plans for some financial preparations for the future together, and she knows I am not joking. As recently as yesterday we deferred on a major purchase... she said I don't want to make the purchase if you are going to leave. So it is beyond talk. There has been lots of "do", but the results of the "do" have not been fully sufficient yet to invoke enough change to give me longterm hope.


The problem should be kept on the front burner until it is resolved. If she knows you will leave over this, what is she doing to resolve the problem? Sounds like nothing.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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The book Lovebusters has an entire chapter on anger so I would get that. Also this thread has some excellent radio clips about resolving anger: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2603602#Post2603602


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane

What you are talking about is the future of your marriage. That is not a trite thing to most people. Stop minimizing it. This tactic hasn't worked in the past for you and won't work in the future. You will NEVER be successful at ignoring her abusive behavior so you are better off addressing it now than later when the fallout is worse.


I get your point to a degree. Rest assured, if I were minimizing this completely, I wouldn't be here asking for help. Nor would I have followed through. I just downloaded the book and will begin reading today.

I have been through many circumstances in life where had I quit, I would have missed the blessing available only to those who persevere and overcome.

So I don't quite see this as minimizing. I see it as persevering to a solution. Thats why I'm here.

Thansk again. I'll post more as we go.

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Thanks Again Melody....

Maybe I'd do best to read that chapter first and post some dialogue about it. Will check out the suggested thread too.

Thanks

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Originally Posted By: Chazz
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane

What you are talking about is the future of your marriage. That is not a trite thing to most people. Stop minimizing it. This tactic hasn't worked in the past for you and won't work in the future. You will NEVER be successful at ignoring her abusive behavior so you are better off addressing it now than later when the fallout is worse.


I get your point to a degree. Rest assured, if I were minimizing this completely, I wouldn't be here asking for help. Nor would I have followed through. I just downloaded the book and will begin reading today.

I have been through many circumstances in life where had I quit, I would have missed the blessing available only to those who persevere and overcome.

So I don't quite see this as minimizing. I see it as persevering to a solution. Thats why I'm here.


When I refer to your minimizing, I am referring to minimizing comments you have made here by comparing your situation to other dire situations. That is a minimizing tactic. We can ALWAYS find situations worse than ours, but it does not make our situations better in reality. It is a tactic that does not work.

And I am hopeful that you will overcome, I believe you CAN do that if you take action.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: Chazz
Thanks Again Melody....

Maybe I'd do best to read that chapter first and post some dialogue about it. Will check out the suggested thread too.

Thanks



Good man!! And keep in mind that MANY of us, including Dr. Bill Harley, have overcome our own angry outbursts. So we KNOW it can be done.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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